Just somethin I been working on ~ Yes, I am still alive!!
- Thread starter sean69
- Start date
New Project!
Have a couple other projects in here that are just finishing up but this one is up next:
Nice old Ithica 12ga with a cracked wrist
Going to do her up in Birdseye Maple with Rosewood accent...
Blanks all cut up thanks to the new shop tool....
Brand spanking new bandsaw! YAY!!!
Also have a small grips project for a pistol. So I picked up this Red Mallee Burl (whatever the heck that is! - probably 3-4 sets of grips in there...
Have a couple other projects in here that are just finishing up but this one is up next:
Nice old Ithica 12ga with a cracked wrist
Going to do her up in Birdseye Maple with Rosewood accent...
Blanks all cut up thanks to the new shop tool....
Brand spanking new bandsaw! YAY!!!
Also have a small grips project for a pistol. So I picked up this Red Mallee Burl (whatever the heck that is! - probably 3-4 sets of grips in there...
I don't do checkering at this point - it's about 8 parts experience to 2 parts voodoo. If something needs checkering, it goes elsewhere at this point,
I shopped around a long time for it - definitely a good investment
(1.75hp, 110v/220v switchable) If I had the head space I would have gone for a larger saw, but that just fits with 1/2" to spare!
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Also have a small grips project for a pistol. So I picked up this Red Mallee Burl (whatever the heck that is! - probably 3-4 sets of grips in there... [/B]
Mallee is Eucalyptus. Usually ends up looking pretty cool.
Been a little while since I posted, got a few more projects underway and a few more inbound!
The Ithica is well under way. A little more disassembly than I wanted to do, but some of those internal parts were just too fragile to risk. The trigger groups are all pinned together and pretty fiddly, so they are going to have to stay put, but man are they ever in the way!!
That Birdseye Maple is gonna look GREAT!
Fore end/cap iron came together nicely. I even found a piece of ebony for it! (I thought it wa gonna be rosewood)
Action is pretty much inlet, just the trigger group to do....
Got some real nice contact on the action. It was a lot more difficult that I had originally anticipated....
Even had enough Birdseye Maple left for MY 92 Winchester
Sharps/Borchardt is also well under way. stock is pretty well laid out
Primary inlet is done, but the stock bolt is bent (and HUGE 8" long, 1/2" diameter with a 3/7" diameter head) and is trying to pull the butt stock off center.
Gonna have to find a solution to straighten a bolt that big
The Ithica is well under way. A little more disassembly than I wanted to do, but some of those internal parts were just too fragile to risk. The trigger groups are all pinned together and pretty fiddly, so they are going to have to stay put, but man are they ever in the way!!
That Birdseye Maple is gonna look GREAT!
Fore end/cap iron came together nicely. I even found a piece of ebony for it! (I thought it wa gonna be rosewood)
Action is pretty much inlet, just the trigger group to do....
Got some real nice contact on the action. It was a lot more difficult that I had originally anticipated....
Even had enough Birdseye Maple left for MY 92 Winchester
Sharps/Borchardt is also well under way. stock is pretty well laid out
Primary inlet is done, but the stock bolt is bent (and HUGE 8" long, 1/2" diameter with a 3/7" diameter head) and is trying to pull the butt stock off center.
Gonna have to find a solution to straighten a bolt that big
it depends on the end use - if it is a show piece/safe queen a finer/delicate finish is possible, a working gun will get a more durable finish. most finishes get pore filler & oil before any clear coat. Almost everything gets waxed.
I'll use aniline dyes on lighter woods, but avoid staining anything (if I can) and let the figure speak for itself.
Any of the curl you see in some of the walnut pieces would be completely obscured by stains. (IMO, stain is for making something look like something else, it does not enhance grain or figure)
Generally:
Walnut:
- pores filled using a proper pore filler, I use a water based gel from Lee Valley - it's AWESOME
- 2 or more coats of pure tung oil (again Lee Valley)
For a working gun:
- Tru-oil, polymerized tung or Cyanoacrylate (really warming up the the cyanoacrylate)
- wax polish (Clapham's!)
Show piece:
- blonde shellac flakes, possibly a French Polish depending*
- wax polish
Maple & Cherry get pretty much the same treatment but do not need to have the pores filled.
Frequently I will use auto body pads & work up through the grits/polishes, depending again on "how much finishing" needs to be done.
I stay completely away from pure linseed in finishing (Tru-oil, yea, I know, but it is mostly plastic anyway), but do use it to seal up blanks and works in progress if they are gonna be around a while.
* Nothing (!NOTHING!), can beat the appearance of a true shellac finish, too bad it's so darn fragile
Got an interesting PM I thought we'd share wit you all...
Working with wood question
Good day sir! I've been watching your thread over the last few months and must say I'm very impressed! I am a machinist and budding gunsmith in Alberta and am currently working on scratch building a pair of Winchester highwalls. I bought some fancy walnut blanks from the states last spring which were covered in wax. Back in november i roughed out the first one and found it kept moving on me. (shrinking and warping) I've since de-waxed the rest of the wood and some are splitting too. Is this the nature of the beast? Or have I bought wet wood?
IE, is it normal to have to rough something out, wait a while, machine it to fit, wait a while, hand fit it to the receiver, wait a while, and then finish shaping the stock? Or should you be able to just do it?
Thanks for your insight!
Paul.
OUCH! sorry to hear, hope it didn't set you back too much $$$ Funny - one of my second or third projects were a pair of Father/Son low walls... thanks for the compliments!!
Wood moves, no matter what you do to it, it will eventually move, the smaller the piece the less noticeable it will be. Highly figured woods will be more unpredictable than straight grained woods - wood will expand more along the length of the grain than across. Anything with curl in it is a complete bastard. (and yes, that's the technical term)
I have not had any real problems with butt stocks but have had flint locks and forends move around and warp. and only one ever beyond recovery. if it is the forend you could steam it and bend it back fairly easily. There is a good video showing a method to fix a warped sporter here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKz_I2DfesM
So, warping in general will probably be environmental, if you get lots of severe changes (well even moderate changes can do it) in humidity in your work area you will start getting the issues you described. (my shop goes from 70% in the summer to 20% in the winter.... I have to keep moving blanks around to keep them stable) best solution would be to keep them in a stable environment when you are not working on them (humidity controlled gun safe?)
My rule of thumb is buy rough lumber/blanks/whatever & let them stabilize for a week/10 days or whatever at least. After milling or cutting blanks, use immediately or as fast as reasonable. If they sit around longer I'll oil/seal them up. There is nothing wrong with letting apiece sit around unsealed, just so long as the humidity remains stable.
Cracking: - walnut burl and crotch pieces (especially when they are cut close to the bole/center of the tree) have a lot of stress in them & you should expect the stress to release/change when you start cutting into them, warping and cracking them. Cracks are not such a big deal so long as they are not in a critical spot (i.e. through the wrist) generally they can be fixed/repaired with cyanoacrylate glue and will actually look like a feature This sort of thing is happening to almost all the walnut I have on hand right now as they are all slices of the same bole of quite a large walnut tree
If you had purchased gun blanks I would expect them to be extremely stable and dry, like I said it's probably environmental - I'm guessing these have a lot of figure in them - the darker spots will be very hard and the lighter softer, if it has curl then the stripes alternate hardness - the softer material is probably absorbing moisture faster than the harder, introducing more stress & cracking. I invested in a moisture meter recently .... extremely handy tool!!
- response too long, sending another PM (PMs can only be 5000 words!!)
Normal process: I try to get things done ASAP once cut, and keep them stored in a stable environment. If I know something will be sitting around for a while - it get's oiled/sealed. If you do a bit and wait then do some more and wait without protecting against swelling/cracking/warpage. You are just asking for trouble IMO. You'll inlet something, come back in a week, it won't quite fit, inlet it some more come back in a week then there's a gap there... no fixing that - you'll have to bed it. however, they way most people work, I would say that is normal
CAVEAT: If I get something with a lot (and I mean a lot) of visible stress cracking that you know can't be recovered, I have been known to 'break it' drop it on a concrete step and let the cracks finish their jobs, that way I don't have to guess or find/figure out where a crack is going or what might happen. Then just 'deal with' what is left. at that point at least I know the worst of the stresses are out of the material.
Fore ends: once I get barrel channels and magazine tubes cut/drilled/inlet - I will oil the living crap out of the inside, not only helps mitigate warpage & cracking (though not completely) it also gives the fore end a little more elasticity in case you have to chuck it up in a vice again.
Butt Stocks: the only issue I have ever had is swelling which can make an inlet receiver no longer fit. I generally try to do a complete inlet in one session then seal it up somehow. Oil is not my favorite, I prefer to use something that will protect from future oils seeping into the receiver inlet. again Cyanoacrylate glues or you can epoxy bed the receiver.
FYI: Oiling and sealing as you work - if you are gonna leave if for a day or two, don't worry about it. a few weeks maybe if you don't have storage where you can control the humidity (gun safe) BUT oiled wood will take a toll on your tools, clog sandpaper pretty good etc. You'll be sharpening your chisels more, cleaning your rasps more and using more sandpaper. So pretty much 'only if you have to' and you want to try and avoid it when you get near to your final dimensions. i.e. when you are getting close to sanding/finishing. whatever you use may not be compatible with your chosen finish.
Fixing:
Cracks: as I mentioned they can be sealed up with CA so long as they are not threatening the structure of the wrist. Keep in mind the calibre of course, a crack in a .22 wrist is nothing to worry about - glue it! .30-06 ........ don't even try you really just have to get a feel of it see where the crack has started and figure out where it is going and if it is going to threaten the structure over all.
In a fore end, cracks tend to be more difficult since you generally don't have as much material you need to be more careful about gluing them - fortunately you don't have much to worry about with recoil on a fore end.
Warping:
Never had a butt stock warp, but you can bend wrists using heat - have to look that one up on you tube, I've never done it...
Fore ends & long guns, steam and clamp around your barrel (protect the barrel from the moisture) - once formed steam bent wood will generally stay put(ish) then oil the crap out of it. even better if you have multiple lugs or barrel bands to convince it to stay put.
Splitting:
hm. tough, if you have enough material cut the spit out and seal if not going to use it right away.
In a nutshell? "work on it at whatever pace you enjoy most, just keep your material stable"
Great question! - you mind if I post it on the thread?
-thanks
-sean
Working with wood question
Good day sir! I've been watching your thread over the last few months and must say I'm very impressed! I am a machinist and budding gunsmith in Alberta and am currently working on scratch building a pair of Winchester highwalls. I bought some fancy walnut blanks from the states last spring which were covered in wax. Back in november i roughed out the first one and found it kept moving on me. (shrinking and warping) I've since de-waxed the rest of the wood and some are splitting too. Is this the nature of the beast? Or have I bought wet wood?
IE, is it normal to have to rough something out, wait a while, machine it to fit, wait a while, hand fit it to the receiver, wait a while, and then finish shaping the stock? Or should you be able to just do it?
Thanks for your insight!
Paul.
OUCH! sorry to hear, hope it didn't set you back too much $$$ Funny - one of my second or third projects were a pair of Father/Son low walls... thanks for the compliments!!
Wood moves, no matter what you do to it, it will eventually move, the smaller the piece the less noticeable it will be. Highly figured woods will be more unpredictable than straight grained woods - wood will expand more along the length of the grain than across. Anything with curl in it is a complete bastard. (and yes, that's the technical term)
I have not had any real problems with butt stocks but have had flint locks and forends move around and warp. and only one ever beyond recovery. if it is the forend you could steam it and bend it back fairly easily. There is a good video showing a method to fix a warped sporter here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKz_I2DfesM
So, warping in general will probably be environmental, if you get lots of severe changes (well even moderate changes can do it) in humidity in your work area you will start getting the issues you described. (my shop goes from 70% in the summer to 20% in the winter.... I have to keep moving blanks around to keep them stable) best solution would be to keep them in a stable environment when you are not working on them (humidity controlled gun safe?)
My rule of thumb is buy rough lumber/blanks/whatever & let them stabilize for a week/10 days or whatever at least. After milling or cutting blanks, use immediately or as fast as reasonable. If they sit around longer I'll oil/seal them up. There is nothing wrong with letting apiece sit around unsealed, just so long as the humidity remains stable.
Cracking: - walnut burl and crotch pieces (especially when they are cut close to the bole/center of the tree) have a lot of stress in them & you should expect the stress to release/change when you start cutting into them, warping and cracking them. Cracks are not such a big deal so long as they are not in a critical spot (i.e. through the wrist) generally they can be fixed/repaired with cyanoacrylate glue and will actually look like a feature This sort of thing is happening to almost all the walnut I have on hand right now as they are all slices of the same bole of quite a large walnut tree
If you had purchased gun blanks I would expect them to be extremely stable and dry, like I said it's probably environmental - I'm guessing these have a lot of figure in them - the darker spots will be very hard and the lighter softer, if it has curl then the stripes alternate hardness - the softer material is probably absorbing moisture faster than the harder, introducing more stress & cracking. I invested in a moisture meter recently .... extremely handy tool!!
- response too long, sending another PM (PMs can only be 5000 words!!)
Normal process: I try to get things done ASAP once cut, and keep them stored in a stable environment. If I know something will be sitting around for a while - it get's oiled/sealed. If you do a bit and wait then do some more and wait without protecting against swelling/cracking/warpage. You are just asking for trouble IMO. You'll inlet something, come back in a week, it won't quite fit, inlet it some more come back in a week then there's a gap there... no fixing that - you'll have to bed it. however, they way most people work, I would say that is normal
CAVEAT: If I get something with a lot (and I mean a lot) of visible stress cracking that you know can't be recovered, I have been known to 'break it' drop it on a concrete step and let the cracks finish their jobs, that way I don't have to guess or find/figure out where a crack is going or what might happen. Then just 'deal with' what is left. at that point at least I know the worst of the stresses are out of the material.
Fore ends: once I get barrel channels and magazine tubes cut/drilled/inlet - I will oil the living crap out of the inside, not only helps mitigate warpage & cracking (though not completely) it also gives the fore end a little more elasticity in case you have to chuck it up in a vice again.
Butt Stocks: the only issue I have ever had is swelling which can make an inlet receiver no longer fit. I generally try to do a complete inlet in one session then seal it up somehow. Oil is not my favorite, I prefer to use something that will protect from future oils seeping into the receiver inlet. again Cyanoacrylate glues or you can epoxy bed the receiver.
FYI: Oiling and sealing as you work - if you are gonna leave if for a day or two, don't worry about it. a few weeks maybe if you don't have storage where you can control the humidity (gun safe) BUT oiled wood will take a toll on your tools, clog sandpaper pretty good etc. You'll be sharpening your chisels more, cleaning your rasps more and using more sandpaper. So pretty much 'only if you have to' and you want to try and avoid it when you get near to your final dimensions. i.e. when you are getting close to sanding/finishing. whatever you use may not be compatible with your chosen finish.
Fixing:
Cracks: as I mentioned they can be sealed up with CA so long as they are not threatening the structure of the wrist. Keep in mind the calibre of course, a crack in a .22 wrist is nothing to worry about - glue it! .30-06 ........ don't even try you really just have to get a feel of it see where the crack has started and figure out where it is going and if it is going to threaten the structure over all.
In a fore end, cracks tend to be more difficult since you generally don't have as much material you need to be more careful about gluing them - fortunately you don't have much to worry about with recoil on a fore end.
Warping:
Never had a butt stock warp, but you can bend wrists using heat - have to look that one up on you tube, I've never done it...
Fore ends & long guns, steam and clamp around your barrel (protect the barrel from the moisture) - once formed steam bent wood will generally stay put(ish) then oil the crap out of it. even better if you have multiple lugs or barrel bands to convince it to stay put.
Splitting:
hm. tough, if you have enough material cut the spit out and seal if not going to use it right away.
In a nutshell? "work on it at whatever pace you enjoy most, just keep your material stable"
Great question! - you mind if I post it on the thread?
-thanks
-sean
Yotarunner
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Alberta
You sir should write a book! I have recently found myself checking the smithing forum just to see if this thread has been bumped up again.
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
Funny - I had been tinkering with the idea, though pretty much everything I do has been well covered in these 2 books:
https://www.amazon.com/Gunsmith-Grenville-County-Building-Longrifle/dp/1880655136
https://www.amazon.ca/Recreating-American-Longrifle-William-Buchele/dp/0873871073
Little more work on the Ithica SxS last night - have the buttstock all inlet & ready to start shaping it this weekend, but took a little break from the heavy lifting to inlet a little ebony key in the fore arm....
Needs to look like the original.
I have no Ebony of significant size here (I am buying if you have any) but enough little splinters good enough for inlays.
I made a little template and cut this out on the bandsaw.
The template was used to mark the layout lines and then cut with a knife.
The little strip of aluminum siding works nicely to keep any slips with the knife away from the barrel.
Enough of a mortice done to start test fitting
Fits pretty good so far. I used another chunk of aluminum to stop my knife from travelling too far. Leather serves the same purpose. That barrel is 99.9% perfect, I found only 1 small scratch (no dents) under the fore arm.
It got epoxied & left over night, just started shaping it here.
Looks pretty good!! Will leave as is until the rest of the stock is ready for final finish/sanding.
That's it for now!!
Needs to look like the original.
I have no Ebony of significant size here (I am buying if you have any) but enough little splinters good enough for inlays.
I made a little template and cut this out on the bandsaw.
The template was used to mark the layout lines and then cut with a knife.
The little strip of aluminum siding works nicely to keep any slips with the knife away from the barrel.
Enough of a mortice done to start test fitting
Fits pretty good so far. I used another chunk of aluminum to stop my knife from travelling too far. Leather serves the same purpose. That barrel is 99.9% perfect, I found only 1 small scratch (no dents) under the fore arm.
It got epoxied & left over night, just started shaping it here.
Looks pretty good!! Will leave as is until the rest of the stock is ready for final finish/sanding.
That's it for now!!
More work on the Ithica ... lots done in fact!
Everything is all inlet/fitted and ready for rough shaping
Roughing out the pistol grip
It's quite awkward to work on, some creative work holding is in order...
Butt part is done...
Time for a break, will work on the wrist & grip another day
a fun little side project ... much handier than the drawer - even if it is just a glorified spice rack
Everything is all inlet/fitted and ready for rough shaping
Roughing out the pistol grip
It's quite awkward to work on, some creative work holding is in order...
Butt part is done...
Time for a break, will work on the wrist & grip another day
a fun little side project ... much handier than the drawer - even if it is just a glorified spice rack
And FINALLY - a gun of my own (Winchester Mod.92 SRC, .44-40)!! I was really concerned about how the birdseye maple would look, it's not a "classic" Winchester look & I thought it might be pooh-poohed by the purists out there (but I don't really care) Wish I could get more of that material on a regular basis....
What do you guys think??
started with a shop made brass butt plate
nice fit if I do say so myself (will be replacing that screw with a slotted correct one)
lots of eyes...
Lots!!
almost ready to sand
Sanded to 400 grit, 2 coats of tung oil ...
Love the colour
gotta remember to replace those screws!
the eyes really pop out
They follow you around depending how the light strikes them!
Just need to polish up the butt plate, probably clear coat this one with cyanoacrylate then paste wax ... pretty happy with this one.
What do you guys think??
started with a shop made brass butt plate
nice fit if I do say so myself
(will be replacing that screw with a slotted correct one)
lots of eyes...
Lots!!
almost ready to sand
Sanded to 400 grit, 2 coats of tung oil ...
Love the colour
gotta remember to replace those screws!
the eyes really pop out
They follow you around depending how the light strikes them!
Just need to polish up the butt plate, probably clear coat this one with cyanoacrylate then paste wax ... pretty happy with this one.
