whiteinterceptor
CGN Regular
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
beautiful work on the 44-40 , love the colour and I think it suits the rifle, I'll send you the blank EMT and you fill in the numbers, keep up the outstanding work.
Just somethin I been working on ~ Yes, I am still alive!!
- Thread starter sean69
- Start date
I did have every intention of selling it, but now..... I dunno! Maybe after I get my 92 .25-20 SRC project under way.... or maybe not ... ?? Wish I could get more of that maple in 2" thicknesses though.... argh
humming right along here - got everything together for my .25-20 1892 SRC - well except some extra cash
Till then the Birdseye is nearly complete, just needs a clear coat after the tung has completely cured. Didn't keep me from taking it to the range the other day though
New shop made brass plate all made and polished up. nice and shiny
Still working on the Ithica, a lot more work than I was bargaining on, but at least I got to learn some new things from the process....
The amount of inletting never seems to end! the tang and trigger guard are double inlet!
Patterns made for the 'eras' - I've done this before for savages, it's handy to use a french curl and just cut a little styrene pattern instead of trying to freehand it, that way if you lose a line you can just get the exact shape back.
Speaking of losing layout lines, I bought this little laser level for about $100 - SUPER handy when you lose a center line (which you will do frequently)
In this case, when I had laid out the mortice lines for the trigger guard, it didn't look quite on center. Set up the laser agains my existing layout lines and NOPE! it was just a little off to the right. Science saves the day!
Beefing up the grip cap, I needed it to be a little larger - wider and longer so I could beef up the wrist a little bit. that and it has a nasty crack in it that I don't trust.
Grabbed a little piece of black styrene from my LHS & had a neat conversation with the owner (who is a restorer of antique cars) it seems that things like these in that time period were made of soy?@!!? Gonna have to look that one up.
Frankly, I'd much rather get an original cap & make a casting - that and the butt plate as well, both are heavily worn.
So the Ithica is nearly done, should be completely shaped & sanded today and ready for finishing Monday. Then it's back to the Borchardt - that was waiting on gun parts and lathe parts. I also have some interesting machining to do for that one....
Till then the Birdseye is nearly complete, just needs a clear coat after the tung has completely cured. Didn't keep me from taking it to the range the other day though
New shop made brass plate all made and polished up. nice and shiny
Still working on the Ithica, a lot more work than I was bargaining on, but at least I got to learn some new things from the process....
The amount of inletting never seems to end! the tang and trigger guard are double inlet!
Patterns made for the 'eras' - I've done this before for savages, it's handy to use a french curl and just cut a little styrene pattern instead of trying to freehand it, that way if you lose a line you can just get the exact shape back.
Speaking of losing layout lines, I bought this little laser level for about $100 - SUPER handy when you lose a center line (which you will do frequently)
In this case, when I had laid out the mortice lines for the trigger guard, it didn't look quite on center. Set up the laser agains my existing layout lines and NOPE! it was just a little off to the right. Science saves the day!
Beefing up the grip cap, I needed it to be a little larger - wider and longer so I could beef up the wrist a little bit. that and it has a nasty crack in it that I don't trust.
Grabbed a little piece of black styrene from my LHS & had a neat conversation with the owner (who is a restorer of antique cars) it seems that things like these in that time period were made of soy?@!!? Gonna have to look that one up.
Frankly, I'd much rather get an original cap & make a casting - that and the butt plate as well, both are heavily worn.
So the Ithica is nearly done, should be completely shaped & sanded today and ready for finishing Monday. Then it's back to the Borchardt - that was waiting on gun parts and lathe parts. I also have some interesting machining to do for that one....
sean69
You mention at the bottom of your post #180 about finishing your birds eye maple stock off in "cyanoacrylate" and paste wax for the finally. When I looked it up cyanoacrylate is basically an adhesive and commonly known as Super Glue.
Since I have always been interested in gun stock finishing do you think you could please explain for us folks the method in which the cyanoacrylate is applied and what advantages it gives to a stock finish and any disadvantages if any.
I really enjoy following this thread and thank you for sharing with us all your projects and insight into how things are done.
You mention at the bottom of your post #180 about finishing your birds eye maple stock off in "cyanoacrylate" and paste wax for the finally. When I looked it up cyanoacrylate is basically an adhesive and commonly known as Super Glue.
Since I have always been interested in gun stock finishing do you think you could please explain for us folks the method in which the cyanoacrylate is applied and what advantages it gives to a stock finish and any disadvantages if any.
I really enjoy following this thread and thank you for sharing with us all your projects and insight into how things are done.
Trade name "Super Glue" but - yes, exactly that
Before I get into it:
- My understanding was that originally it was developed as a battlefield dressing during Vietnam..... and I have used it for minor cuts in a pinch... though the actual history seems much more interesting! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
- don't buy it from Canadian tire at $8 for a 15ml throw away tube go to a hobby shop and pay that $8 for a full ounce. & they will have any viscosity you need.
- don't waste time with accelerators.
- I've never found a solvent that will dissolve cured CA, anything that refers to cleanup or solvent is a lie.
- FULL EYE protection and breathing protection. it cures on contact with moisture, the fumes from a large surface area (say a gunstock) will burn your eyes and get chunks of crap gumming them up... and you won't be able to breathe either. i.e goggles.
- GLOVES!! the super thin stuff will wick into everything VIA capillary action. Just opening the bottle can coat your hands. - refer to "no known solvent" above, you have been warned!
- I store mine in a capped mason jar with a large packet of silica gel.
- we are not bonding anything here, but it's useful to keep in mind that CA has great tensile performance, but performs terribly under shearing stresses.
So, I had been using it for different thing building toy airplanes, building up sind screens, instrument faces. Ran into a couple discussions on wood turners using it as a finish & investigated as 'leveling' a finish on something as unusually shaped as a gun stock is very difficult. Shellac is about the nicest to use & best looking but is not durable.
What I like(want) in a stock finish is 3 layers of protection - some kind of polymerizing oil to completely seal up the wood & bring out any color/figure, also an excellent moisture barrier. The clear coat for the surface finish, ideally something that can be tuned from between: "somewhat semi gloss" to "looking in a mirror". Then wax which protects the clear coat, will shed *some* solvents, another moisture barrier, can be tuned to the shine you want AND is easily repaired/replaced/removed. (BTW, wax your barrels and actions too!!, got a CCH action? find a good UV protecting paste wax and have at it
) The CA glues hit all the points I want in a clear coating PLUS have the added benefit of being tough as nails. The biggest boon is that there is no waiting between applications.
Applying it is the tricky part, on a flat surface it's no problem the thinner ones will 'self level', thicker viscosities will have to be spread around with an old credit card or something similar or on a spinning part (like the pen turners) again no problem you can wipe it on evenly before it has a chance to cure. (If you have gotten to this point and forgotten the goggles and respirator; you have probably already left the room and are on your way to crappy tire for goggles & a respirator)
Applying evenly it to a complex part (like a gun stock) is far more difficult, you certainly can't spray it, wiping it evenly over the entire stock before it cures is probably not possible, I have 'chased' it across a surface with the applicator - which works fine for the first coat, but the second will take longer to cure & I ended up with runs anyway.
Still experimenting with application - I'll probably try a thicker glue. (there may actually be a retarder available?)
Finishing is just sandpaper & elbow grease, it's best to wet sand it as the dust is extremely fine (and you are not worried about moisture penetrating your stock since you have at least 2 applications of cured oil in it
) CA is surprising tough and it will take a little while to sand down a run or drip. Resist the urge to power sand anything. Basically I use a sanding block with a very fine (320.400g) sandpaper to find all the high spots &/or dips then work them down with 220g or fill any dips if necessary. then I'll go to a wet paper to start evening the finish. That can be worked up as far as you like 600g - 1000g with paper then you can switch to auto body compounds & pads to over 2000g. You could also go with pumice &/or rottenstone after 1000g if you are that kind of guy
Then wax to taste
As far as durability ~ it is an engineered product, so different vendors product may have different properties. I've never seen the hobby shop stuff (Bob Smith Industries) yellow, break down or crack after time but then again I've not been using on wood for long. The wood turners use something called "hott stuff" which is also commonly available in hobby shops (and lee valley) - but I have no experience with that one. Looking at another one called TMI - specifically marketed to woodworkers.... no info on that.
I think I will actually post on a wood forum to see what other people think of the different product lines ... *
I have a couple of test pieces floating around the shop, I liked very much the results - I have a little walnut box side project on the bench right now that I will probably "test" again...
* the greatest place to ask about finishing anything is on a woodworker forum, (Canadian Woodworking/Fine woodworking etc) finishing something is an art in itself and I'm finding usually the most time consuming! whatever you need to know, someone on there has been doing it for 50 years. I learned entirely way too much about oil applications after a 10 post dressing down than I ever wanted to know. I met a guy who deals in abrasives on CWW - now I have some sandpaper that never seems to load up or get dull!! And don't forget the Luthiers, without them I would never have discovered Aniline dyes or how to correctly use tru oil.
They all also seem to use auto body stuff for polishing (well not the French polishers, but lets face it life is too short for a French polish!!)
Wax, I had been using Clapham's but recently switched to Mothers auto body. (both smell real nice) Mother's dries up much harder & seems like a more durable choice. (Carnauba vs. beeswax I guess)
Drawbacks, so far I see none, even if you had to do a spot refinish, it should be very easy to blend it. Completely removing it evenly for a total refinish would be problematic.... but otherwise no, nothing
Thank you for explaining the ins and outs of cyanoacrylate. As I suspected there's a lot more to it than applying tung oil. One would have to practice on scrap before cutting loose on a decent stock.
Yes wood finishing is an art unto it's own in many respects. Many folks have there own tried and true methods a recipes arrived at by trail and error over the years.
Yes wood finishing is an art unto it's own in many respects. Many folks have there own tried and true methods a recipes arrived at by trail and error over the years.
So I tried to do the birdseye stock last night, it wenk 'ok', then not so great, then there was a fire!
My thought was to try and wipe it on, used a small piece of cheesecloth (1" x 1") to wipe some onto the fore end. had to work fast cuz I knew it would cure fast in the cloth, but it worked "OK" - obviously needed a lot of sanding though. Glue had not cured in the cloth, so I moved on to the butt..... not so great, too much surface area to cover quickly. then the glue cured reminding me of one more property of CA that I had forgotten.
Cyanoacrylate generates heat as it cures.
Enough to set my little piece of cheesecloth on fire and melt my gloves to my fingers - ouch!
After dealing with that I tried wiping it on with just the gloves, very mixed results. lots of runs, lots of sanding in the future and my respirator was not really up to the job, still got a lung full
that and the basement was not habitable for several hours after. So the apply and sand immediately does not really apply when working with large areas. Not sure how much further I am gonna pursue this method if I can't find a way to apply it evenly & quickly.
achtanelion
Regular
- Location
- Edmonchuck
So I tried to do the birdseye stock last night, it wenk 'ok', then not so great, then there was a fire!
My thought was to try and wipe it on, used a small piece of cheesecloth (1" x 1") to wipe some onto the fore end. had to work fast cuz I knew it would cure fast in the cloth, but it worked "OK" - obviously needed a lot of sanding though. Glue had not cured in the cloth, so I moved on to the butt..... not so great, too much surface area to cover quickly. then the glue cured reminding me of one more property of CA that I had forgotten.
Cyanoacrylate generates heat as it cures.
Enough to set my little piece of cheesecloth on fire and melt my gloves to my fingers - ouch!
After dealing with that I tried wiping it on with just the gloves, very mixed results. lots of runs, lots of sanding in the future and my respirator was not really up to the job, still got a lung full
Not sure how much further I am gonna pursue this method if I can't find a way to apply it evenly & quickly.
CA reacts with cotton (also leather and wool) which can cause fires. (Side note, starting a fire with dryer lint and superglue amazes people). Try using notebook paper to apply the CA.
I was in woodchuckers yesterday (grabbed a sweet piece of spalted maple!) and picked up 2 viscosities specifically formulated for wood finishing. Plus some tips on application - apparently, just use a paper towel. I did use an old tims card to spread some about on a flat surface - worked great.
But according to them: 1-2 applications, super thin. 3-4 medium viscosity... then sand if necessary.
Super quick update..........
Ebony FINALLY showed up!!! YAY!
Stumbled into some striking spalted maple...
The Ithaca is nearly done
Had an issue where I thought I heard a crack while cinching down a screw nothing visible, so I assumed it was an 'eye' splitting inside. Better safe than sorry I decided to drop an aluminum truss down the middle....... runs the length of that drill right into the butt. and the action bold goes through it as well. Should really shore up the wrist
................. F**K ME! slipped out of the vise and hit the floor, took a giant chip out of one of the ears. then it became airborne.... grrrr (no the action was not attached to it at the time!)
Looks like the owner is getting walnut after all, I have no birdseye left Luckily it's a REALLY nice piece of walnut.
From a disaster - to square one - to a 70% complete inlet in one day???? Sometimes a little pressure can be a good thing.
Ebony FINALLY showed up!!! YAY!
Stumbled into some striking spalted maple...
The Ithaca is nearly done
Had an issue where I thought I heard a crack while cinching down a screw nothing visible, so I assumed it was an 'eye' splitting inside. Better safe than sorry I decided to drop an aluminum truss down the middle....... runs the length of that drill right into the butt. and the action bold goes through it as well. Should really shore up the wrist
................. F**K ME! slipped out of the vise and hit the floor, took a giant chip out of one of the ears. then it became airborne.... grrrr (no the action was not attached to it at the time!)
Looks like the owner is getting walnut after all, I have no birdseye left
Luckily it's a REALLY nice piece of walnut.
From a disaster - to square one - to a 70% complete inlet in one day???? Sometimes a little pressure can be a good thing.
- Location
- West Quebec
I'm envious of folks who can do this kind of restoration..
I work on 'soft' woods... it's 98% patience for this kind of work though. I have to start on hard woods at some point.
Day two of recovery from a broken stock ... killin it!
Receiver is inlet, just need some fine tuning before moving on to the butt plate & grip cap, was a long session so time to take a break and come back at that tomorrow....
So we'll glue up the ebony tip for the Borchardt.... it's useful to leave your layout lines intact (circled) while inletting the barrel so you know where your dowels are located... Would not do to cut into them while profiling.
Dowel centers are cheap and accurate, an easy method of transferring a location onto a mating piece.
One tip about ebony though - as tough and dense as it is, don't hit it with a hammer - it is actually quite brittle. Use just hand pressure to get your dowel center marks and clamp pressure to join the parts...
Receiver is inlet, just need some fine tuning before moving on to the butt plate & grip cap, was a long session so time to take a break and come back at that tomorrow....
So we'll glue up the ebony tip for the Borchardt.... it's useful to leave your layout lines intact (circled) while inletting the barrel so you know where your dowels are located... Would not do to cut into them while profiling.
Dowel centers are cheap and accurate, an easy method of transferring a location onto a mating piece.
One tip about ebony though - as tough and dense as it is, don't hit it with a hammer - it is actually quite brittle. Use just hand pressure to get your dowel center marks and clamp pressure to join the parts...
