Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
RC's sell for $400 in the USA today. Taxes, duties, shipping and profit make up the difference in the Canadian price.
K98 & g29/40
- Thread starter DiverDriver
- Start date
RC's sell for $400 in the USA today. Taxes, duties, shipping and profit make up the difference in the Canadian price.
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- Onterrible
I understand that a lot of things are more expensive here than they are in the US. But they sell them for $400, because they are worth $400. They buy them from the same stockpiles, for the same wholesale price and shipping from Eastern block (probably $200'ish total).
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- Onterrible
If you (and CanadianAR) could help me out here... The stock is wrong but I don't see the rest of it. I'm not refuting your opinion; I am just not very experienced with these rifles and would like some education on what you are seeing, because I don't.
The fonts are the same style and I micrometer'd the size, they are the same. The other markings...? Being produced while the Germans were losing the war, the workmanship would have had to suffer.
Please help me out.
Ok. I'll start with the upper band. The font is totally wrong as is the waffenamt. The band is e/37 inspected which would be for a Sauer produced K98k, not Mauser Oberndorf.
The bolt flat where the original serial was has been ground and again the incorrect font for MO used to renumber it. The bolt shroud is not numbered and the safety only has 2 digits. Both of these should have the last 4 digits of the serial on them. The cocking piece was also ground and renumbered. What waffenamt is stamped on the bolt body? It would be on the underside of the bolt root. A MO rifle in 1943 would either have a MO made bolt with waffenamt e/135 or a FN made bolt body e/140 and possibly also marked with a MI or X near the third lug. Even if it does have the correct waffenamt it still has been ground and renumbered but that would be an additional indicator if the waffenamt isn't correct.
Here is a link to a text book example of a byf 43 all original and untouched. Take a close look at the serial fonts and numbering patterns. There are also close up detailed pics of the bolt and bolt shroud serials. This rifle is from a highly respected K98k collector in the US and is an excellent example to base observations on.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/966524-Matching-byf-43-in-walnut
Hope this helps.
And another excellent example of a byf 43 for comparison. This one is owned by CanadianAR.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/876700-Matching-byf43-K98K
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/876700-Matching-byf43-K98K
Like everyone else has said these are pretty much renumbered mixmasters. I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as some of the guys on here regarding German K98k's but the BYF rifle has an action serialled 26846 C block. I thought all of the letter blocks only went from 1 to 9999 then started a new letter block?
In 1943 MO went to a 5 digit serial system so the serial on the receiver is correct. Typically only the last 4 digits and the letter block were on the bolt flat and the last 4 digits on everything else but there was a period where they put all 5 digits plus the letter on the bolt.
Thanks for the info, JB.
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- Onterrible
Ok I can see more of what you are talking about... Still have to learn a lot about the fonts (among other things), it seems the receiver fonts are different from all the other parts on both examples?!
The question I have now is, who and when did this re-numbering? Looking closely at my examples I am sure it was done a long time ago and somebody took a fair amount of time/trouble to do it. Judging by patina on re-stamped/ground parts it must have been at the end of the war or shortly after. Would this be a German version of an 'FTR' (Enfield's are more my thing)? Because this is NOT something anyone bothered with when collectors were few and rifles were plenty (and plenty cheap).
Thanks to you and CanadianAR for your time!
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Humping rifles and renumbering them has been going on for a long time for fun a profit....since after WW2 by collectors...and even earlier.....
In fact, during WW1 overseas, Walt Disney painted up fake WW1 German Camo Sniper Helmets because they sold for about 20 times more than a regular helmet. And yes he sold them as there was a market for returning soldiers coming home with souvenirs.
The "Humpty Dance" also applies to rifles.
[youtube]cj9_yW8tZxs[/youtube]
In fact, during WW1 overseas, Walt Disney painted up fake WW1 German Camo Sniper Helmets because they sold for about 20 times more than a regular helmet. And yes he sold them as there was a market for returning soldiers coming home with souvenirs.
The "Humpty Dance" also applies to rifles.
[youtube]cj9_yW8tZxs[/youtube]
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- Onterrible
Interesting... But not at all rellevant, thanks.
Actually a lot of what Coyote Ugly said is relevant (except that awful Humpty Dance video
). People have been humping stuff since the end of the war or even before possibly.The byf43 is not a refurb of any sort in my opinion. It is a very poorly done hump job by some bubba or amateur collector looking to either increase the value or just for the fun of it.
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- Onterrible
Actually a lot of what Coyote Ugly said is relevant (except that awful Humpty Dance video
The byf43 is not a refurb of any sort in my opinion. It is a very poorly done hump job by some bubba or amateur collector looking to either increase the value or just for the fun of it.
That is more relevant. Just can't see why anyone would put so much time and effort into it decades ago? Back when every sporting/surplus store, Woolworth's, Zellers etc etc had them stacked like cordwood at $20 a piece. If you didn't like the one you're looking at, pick up another! Rifles like these were common back in the day, Ww1 Camo Sniper helmets maybe not so much.
I'm not so sure they were as common as you might think. Especially here in Canada. Adding to the problem, back in 'the day' good reference material really didn't exist.
Really, the only good collectible K98k's were brought back by veterans. Aside from the obvious exception of the Portugese Contract K98k's no dealers were ever selling true matching third reich era K98k's in great volume that I know of.
Matching wartime K98k's are a lot more common the United States where veterans were permitted to bring them home.
-Steve
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
DiverDriver,
For a learning exercise, a good thing to do is to make a list of every part and write down if it's correct, factory original, renumbered, reblued, humped, filed, mismatched, sanded, etc
Example:
Front Band -
Rear Band -
Stock -
Triggerguard -
Buttplate -
Bolt and Bolt Assembly Parts -
Rear Sight Assembly -
Blueing -
etc.....
Do this for both rifles and get a snapshot in your mind of what you see. It also determines the value as a collector or a shooter.
When there's no issues you hit the jackpot.
When there's lot's of issues, it makes a good shooter or truck gun!
For a learning exercise, a good thing to do is to make a list of every part and write down if it's correct, factory original, renumbered, reblued, humped, filed, mismatched, sanded, etc
Example:
Front Band -
Rear Band -
Stock -
Triggerguard -
Buttplate -
Bolt and Bolt Assembly Parts -
Rear Sight Assembly -
Blueing -
etc.....
Do this for both rifles and get a snapshot in your mind of what you see. It also determines the value as a collector or a shooter.
When there's no issues you hit the jackpot.
When there's lot's of issues, it makes a good shooter or truck gun!
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- Onterrible
That's pretty good advice and I will try it. As for Mausers I really only wanted to get one nice one because one of my grandfathers carried one in WW2... I guess I ended up with a couple of shooter/truck guns. I'll have to do a lot more research before I buy a nice one (and punt these). For the meantime I'll stick to my Enfields where I can buy a little more confidently. Thanks again.
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- Onterrible
Sorry, but this is some questionable logic! Your trying to tell me that people were "humping rifles since the end of the war AND MAYBE BEFORE"?!?! So that suggests Canadian, Brit and American troops were grinding and stamping captured weapons for fun between battles! Ummmm, probably not.....
as captured guns, most were dicked with over the years, by some buddy, here or there . yours are nice examples in my opinion . finding all matching stuff that is original,and unrefurbished is near impossible ,most were turned into hunting rifles. I would be more concerned with the all matching rifles as the humping going on of these rifles is extreme. there are a lot of people who want your money in there pocket .
