Kaboom Yesterday at the Gun Club

Slapshot said:
The grey, grainy texture of the metal indicates severe fatique.

I would say it is a straw and camel kind of thing
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kind of hard to tell from a picture, but if the newly exposed metal is dull and porous it could well be metal fatigue in the chamber area. Would love to hear what Gunnar has to say (Irv Stone too!). I've never heard of a Bar-Sto failing, but it is always a possibility with anything mechanical. Very glad to hear you weren't seriously injured.
 
Barsto......I wonder if the much vaunted full "chamber support" is a good thing or bad....would it be better to have this sort of event dump gas and fragments down into the mag well rather than up into your face....
 
Just curious about something

I'm not sure if this was classified as a shooting accident but what happened at the range after the incident? Do you have to report it to the the club? What did shooters do around you? Were you shooting alone??? If so you are really lucky that you were only injured that little.

Sorry if I sound like some kind of nosey freak but I'm justs curious
 
Yes I reported the incident to the top person in charge at the club that day....

"Oh Yeah" that would be to me... What can I say??? I'm one of the executive directors at the club....

There where 5 other shooters on the line one of which was my buddy that was standing there watching me shoot. Even he didn't see or hear anything out of the ordinary when it happened. Non of the other shooters realized that the gun had blown up on me either.

I holstered the gun then walked out to my truck to wipe the blood off then walked back in put the handgun and holster away then continued to sight in my 375 Rem Ultra Mag.

I can only see inside the forward part of the barrel and as far as I can tell the bore looks perfect. No bulging so no there was not a bullet left in the barrel from the previous shot.

I didn't state that the loads that I worked up where ever unsafe loads that where over SAAMI specs just that I had run a lot of high pressure loads through the gun during load developement.

If Irv from Barsto stood behind the barrel after 13 years I would be amazed but very happy.

I am right handed but left eye dominant so I twist my head further to the right so I can sight with my left eye. Which is why I was hit in the left cheek instead of my nose and mouth.

Thanks for all of the support/sympathy but the only thing that really got hurt was my pride and my gun. Hopefully I'll have it up and running again in the near future. :)
 
Just another angle maybe to look at; reduced or minimal powder throw??

There is a phenomenon with undercharged powder levels that basically gets one ignition from the primer and maybe a small amount of powder, building pressure, and this ignition "flashes over" the low powder charge laying flat in the case. You then get a second, almost simultaneous ignition from the remaining powder, which compounds the pressures to the point of the appearance of an overpressure load.

Maybe someone else could explain it better....

I've never experienced it, but have read a bit on it.
 
I have run 30 to 40 of these light loads in a row at the most if you consider that overheated by lots of shooting. Did the barrel become hot to the touch? Most definately.....

Did it change color due to over heating? Never....

No I wasn't shooting 40S&W in the gun at the time but even if I did that couldn't possibly cause the problem. The worst thing that can happen when you fire a 40S&W in a 10mm chamber is that the extractor may not grip the bullet rim tight enough to keep the bullet in position for the primer to be ignited by the firing pin.

Could it have been a low powder charge that caused the failure? Possibly but I have no way of knowing. It is a good theory though.
 
What was your load?

Anything is possible, but I don't think the low powder charge/high pressure thing is tha answer in a pistol cartridge.

This situation is generally caused by light charges of slow burning powder in larger rifle cases.

To make an easy illustration, picture a loaded rifle cartridge, standing vertically on your bench.Picture it with only enough powder to fill the case 1/2 way up to the base of the bullet.

When you place it horizontally in your rife and chamber it, the powder charge shifts to the side of the case (which is now the lowest point)

When fired, instead of the slow burning powder igniting in a column, from base of cartridge tot he base of the bullet, the primer flash shoots across the top of the powder, and ignites it all at once.

SInce the slow burnign powder is designed to burn gradually, when it is all ignited at once (even though it is a low charge) the pressure spikes through the roof.

I don't claim to be an expert handgun handloader, but it would surprise me if this situation coudl occur in a what is a relatively small auto pistol case, and using regular powders.

I've never heard of a pistol ka booming because of this, but I sure could be wrong.:confused: Generally, when I don't put enough powder in a auto pistol case, I end up with the bullet trickling out the end of the barrel, or even getting stuck in the barrel.:p

ANyway, gad you are ok!:)
 
Slapshot said:
The grey, grainy texture of the metal indicates severe fatique.

I would say it is a straw and camel kind of thing
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I do not believe that knowing statements concerning metallurgical integrity should be made from a picture. I purposely blew up two rifles which had been in a fire, the inside metal took on the same grainy grey texture as this pistol's failed chamber. All that means is - that for what ever reason - the the chamber pressure exceeded the strength of the chamber metal. Until the gun is examined by a knowledgeable pistol smith or a lab and a report is made, that is all we know.
 
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Camp Cook said:
Could it have been a low powder charge that caused the failure? .
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I've seen them bulge barrels...but never what happened to yours...

In that case...it's generall one of two things...a double charge...or more likely...a squib...after 13 years the barrel is probably loose enough for a squib to travel far enough in the barrel for another round to chamber...then boom
 
I just re-read your first post...

Tite Group...

I've seen 7 guns blow up in the last 5 or 6 years...6 of them were using Tite Group. Nothing wrong with the powder...but it's very dense and very black...and has a high burn rate...Quite possable to double the charge...and not see it in the case. In a high volume case like a 10 mm...it's very possable...
 
Boomer said:
I do not believe that knowing statements concerning metallurgical integrity should be made from a picture. I purposely blew up two rifles which had been in a fire, the inside metal took on the same grainy grey texture as this pistol's failed chamber. All that means is - that for what ever reason - the the chamber pressure exceeded the strength of the chamber metal. Until the gun is examined by a knowledgeable pistol smith or a lab and a report is made, that is all we know.
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I agree. As a tool and die maker I see a lot of broken steel on a bad day. When steel fails in tension (ie blow the chamber out) it ussually looks grainy to some degree, as its pulled apart as it exceeds its strength. In my own humble opinion, I think you must have had a heavy charge. A stuck bullet would more likely ring the barrel than shatter the chamber. What an earlier poster mentioned on the bullet being pushed back into the case is a strong contender too, lowers volume and the pressure goes up very very fast. No matter how hot you got your pistol shooting, if it didn't change colour you didn't get it hot enough to change the temper, and if your loads where all at or under sami spec, you certianly didn't fatigue it, you'd have to load much higher than that for quite some time to even begin to have to worry about it. You definitley had a high pressure event of some sort. And it is really really easy to double charge (or worse) with tite group.
 
Has anyone knowingly shot a double charge? If so what did it feel like?

I am assuming that you would know that you had set off a lot of pressure.

I am used to shooting very powerful top loaded SAAMI spec'ed 10mm ammo out of my 2 10mm's semi-auto's and they have very good recoil to them. Not uncontrolable by any means but extremely stout for a semi-auto to say the least.

The recoil that I felt when the chamber blew off the gun was not really any different than all of the light target loads that I had been shooting already and what I have been used to shooting all these years with having shot thousands of these lighter loads in this gun.

Like I said before if the spray had not hit me I would have tried taking another shot because everything felt the same to me.

I have never shot a double charge before so can't say that it didn't happen but I find it highly unlikely that that was the problem do to the standard pressures that I felt.

Gatehouse I agree with you're comments.

I'm going to email the pic's to Barsto and see what they have to say. Then I'll send the gun and my stock barrel to Gunnar for his expert evaluation and hopefully recieve a healed gun back. I'm sending my 7.5" SRH to him to get the barrel shortened right away so I'll just add this one in to the same shipment.
 
Camp Cook said:
The recoil that I felt when the chamber blew off the gun was not really any different than all of the light target loads that I had been shooting already and what I have been used to shooting all these years with having shot thousands of these lighter loads in this gun.
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The bulk of the pressure went straight up...so it may not have felt that much different...

If the gun failed to cycle...or only partially cycled...the recoil may have even felt lighter than usual...
 
The gun did not cyle at all. All of the pressure went straight up like you said but there was so little felt pressure and it wasn't any lighter just slightly different.

I did feel the grip panels expand slightly with the internal pressure pushing the mag down.
 
Strange, I was shooting the 10mm Delta Elite last year with loads of Tite Group, discharge sounded ok, got the same "spray" feeling in my face, most of the cartridge case was blown away above the base, lots of blood but the gun appeared undamaged, assumed I'd geezed off and double charged the round, but maybe not,
 
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