Yes the RFB seems prone to vertical stringing, as all my 1MOA groups tend to be close to centre line, but up and down.
With a copper fouled barrel I get 2 to 3 inch vertical groups.
Goes back to 1 MOA after KG 12 cleaning.
Kel Tech RFB bull pup 7.62x51 feed back ?
- Thread starter pilot2001
- Start date
Yes the RFB seems prone to vertical stringing, as all my 1MOA groups tend to be close to centre line, but up and down.
With a copper fouled barrel I get 2 to 3 inch vertical groups.
Goes back to 1 MOA after KG 12 cleaning.
It wasnt -
If you think an RFB is incapable of more than 3 rd. 1 MOA you are incorrect.
I have pics - on two sequential targets, shot one after another, 7 rds., Norc and Hornady ammo. Superimposed they are 1 MOA.
Both targets were forum member witnessed - but trolls would probably say pics or it didnt happen or call the witnesses liars - or say 7 rds isn't enough.
Bottom line - the RFB is accurate, not 1/4 " ACCURATE - but accurate.
I'm not quite a troll when it comes to ammo testing the RFB, Sunshine.
I've had bags of 3 round cloverleafs but there was always 2 out of 5 that opened the group up.
The best Epoxy7 and I got was 1.1/4" group for 5 rounds at 100 Meters (not yards).
Hey moongloom
- if its the last 2 of the string - barrel heat could cause this. If not - the stiff trigger may be the cause.If you use a top of the line Bald Eagle rest or similar - and try this --
you should get better results due to the short rest axis of the bullpup.
Also - try sorting your rounds with an ogive comparator - works for me.
But then we are arguing about a quarter inch
The RFB is not a target or sniper rifle - no bullpup is due to its shortness.
But for a .308 bullpup its accuracy is just fine !
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Come on, let's see some 10 shot groups then.
i bought my rfb sight unseen because I've always liked the look of bull-pups and was shocked to learn this was non-restricted.
when i picked up the rifle i was surprised at how small it is. its footprint is smaller than the tavor. the rfb feels like cheap hard plastic, but now that i've gotten used to it it just feels solid and unbreakable(i thought the feel of the tavor was much better initially). trigger is nice for bench rest playing. the ejection chute is great for letting left handed friends try it(truly ambidextrous). accuracy is satisfying even impressive. i use mine mostly for play, ipsc style...this is an area where it is mind blowingly good! Great point-ability, speedy target to target transitions the feeling of lightness when shouldered(destroys the Springfield m1A my bud has) mag changes are slow compared to a tavor. 100% reliable(only 600 - 700 rounds through it)
It's a .308 monster with a carbine length barrel in a 26.1" package.
my RFB is so sweet i want to get another one(32" model) for dedicated bench rest
when i picked up the rifle i was surprised at how small it is. its footprint is smaller than the tavor. the rfb feels like cheap hard plastic, but now that i've gotten used to it it just feels solid and unbreakable(i thought the feel of the tavor was much better initially). trigger is nice for bench rest playing. the ejection chute is great for letting left handed friends try it(truly ambidextrous). accuracy is satisfying even impressive. i use mine mostly for play, ipsc style...this is an area where it is mind blowingly good! Great point-ability, speedy target to target transitions the feeling of lightness when shouldered(destroys the Springfield m1A my bud has) mag changes are slow compared to a tavor. 100% reliable(only 600 - 700 rounds through it)
It's a .308 monster with a carbine length barrel in a 26.1" package.
my RFB is so sweet i want to get another one(32" model) for dedicated bench rest
Please post accuracy tests when you get the long nose.
Longer barrels (unless very thick) flex more resulting in more whip - less accuracy, more muzzle velocity.
Keltec now calls there long barrel the hunter not target model.
Since the RFB receiver isnt bedded into anything, and the stock is basically pinned to the barrel, more whip may be bad due to the looseness of the pushpins.
Havent found anything on the Keltec forum yet -
Please post accuracy tests when you get the long nose.
Longer barrels (unless very thick) flex more resulting in more whip - less accuracy, more muzzle velocity.
Keltec now calls there long barrel the hunter not target model.
Since the RFB receiver isnt bedded into anything, and the stock is basically pinned to the barrel, more whip may be bad due to the looseness of the pushpins.
Havent found anything on the Keltec forum yet -
oops i should have said 32" barrel model not 32" model
you're 100% right!
i don't think the accuracy will touch my bolt bench rest gun... but can't wait to get max velocity out of Hornady 30 cal .308 110 gr v-max (#23010) with fast follow up shots from bench!!
I thought the 26" barrel model was "hunter" and 32" barrel model was designated "target"
it will be interesting to see how the accuracy will be affected based on all you're valid points. I'll love to see what a 10 shot group looks like. i hope a tuned handload will be close to 1 moa (5 shot) but if not a aftermarket ss bull might be able to pull a 10 shot 1 moa group
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Under Half MOA RFB
Was at the range yesterday with a buddie who has over 3000 rds out of his RFB.
His experience is that the rifle is more accurate with hotter loads.
He gets consistant 5 rd. sub half M.O.A. with the following load --
Sierra match king 168
44 g. of varget
CCI 200 primer
O.A.L. 2.8 or longer (depending on throat erosion)
In his gun he has to turn off almost all the gas.
Was at the range yesterday with a buddie who has over 3000 rds out of his RFB.
His experience is that the rifle is more accurate with hotter loads.
He gets consistant 5 rd. sub half M.O.A. with the following load --
Sierra match king 168
44 g. of varget
CCI 200 primer
O.A.L. 2.8 or longer (depending on throat erosion)
In his gun he has to turn off almost all the gas.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I agree with what some others have said, if your so consistent with your RFB let's see some 10 round groups. 3 rounds is not enough.
You keep claiming this stuff and yet, WHERE ARE THE PICTURES
I could claim I shot, or have a buddy who shot 10 rounds into an inch at 1000m, but without pictures, the statement is as retarded to speak publicly, as it sounds! I'm not saying it didn't happen, but your on an internet forum man, the typical rule is, if you have no pictures, it likely didn't happen.
Instead of getting all pissy when people call you out, why not back up your statements, and prove them all wrong?
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I normally don't respond to trolls, but just for you I'll ask him to save me a target of 5 rds. into half M.O.A. and post a pic,
JUST to hear you say 5 rds. isnt enough ! A pic of 10 rds. or it didnt happen !
10 rounds is not conclusive! You have to fire a box of twenty, in one string, or it didn't happen. It has to eat the centre of the target out with no flyers at a mile. And you have to mail the target, certified by a local judge to my address by registered mail.
Ignore the naysayers, most couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a shovel anyway.
It's the internet, no one is obliged to justify anything to anyone.
Was at the range yesterday with a buddie who has over 3000 rds out of his RFB.
His experience is that the rifle is more accurate with hotter loads.
He gets consistant 5 rd. sub half M.O.A. with the following load --
Sierra match king 168
44 g. of varget
CCI 200 primer
O.A.L. 2.8 or longer (depending on throat erosion)
In his gun he has to turn off almost all the gas.
Your buddy wasn't Caramel was it?
That wasn't the results Fireball had when we ran that exact load through the RFB. Over an inch. 3 rounds sub Moa but 5 was over MOA.
The barrel, bolt and gas system make sub .5 Moa extremely unlikely. 1MOA would be possible and lucky. Kel Tec was contacted regarding the accuracy and Fireball was told 1.5 moa on average but they shoot better after more rounds. Also 168 a
mo was recommended.
I've personally never seen a RFB shoot sub MOA never mind half MOA. Of note the US ones do seem to gain some accuracy when supressed.
Also of interest some of the best accuracy reports Ive seen on CGN were just sub moa with 145 MFS ammo. Also some have reported that loading OAL to 2.76 got then to 1 MOA.
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No doubt mileage does vary, as the general consensus in the RFB forum is that some rifles are more accurate than others.
The half M.O.A. my buddy shoots with hot loads may be a result of a Microlon treated barrel or the fact that he has 3000 rds. through it (old harleys never die - they just go faster). My most accurate norc M-14 is one I've had for over 20 years with at least a 20,000 rd. count.
My R.F.B. shoots 1 M.O.A. with norchinko milsurp ( not the boxed stuff ). I attribute this to the front and rear rail extensions for bench rest stability. Its to short a rifle to be stable with rest points so close together. I also attribute this to a COMPLETELY copper free barrel.
I've never bothered with custom loads since I have an ample supply garnered over the years of Lake City Match, O.R.A. mexican match etc.
My original post was put up as it was unusual to get such results with the norc milsurp (not sorted O.A.L. off the ogive as I usually do).
I was previously testing 20 bucks a box hornady 168 A-max match ammo and couldn't get it below one and a quarter, most of it one and a half M.O.A.
The R.F.B. has to be COMPLETELY clean of copper. Any copper in the bore and mine shoots 2 - 2 1/2 M.O.A. I always used J.B. bore paste, Kroil and lots of sweating with a diamond jag. I used the J.B. break in method when the gun was new. Since I converted to K.G. 12 I get a completely copper free bore without the sweat and the same small group sizes.
I cannot stress enough the need to remove ALL copper, and also that the two previous methods are the ONLY methods I have found in 48 years of shooting that remove ALL the copper. The J.B bore polish break in on a new bore helps down the road and have been using this method on all my bores including chrome since I learned it from the OHIO bench rest Association at camp Perry many years ago. It works !
I'm only reporting my results of my methods , and the results of another hard corps (more than me ) R.F.B.'r.
The R.F.B. IS more accurate than many think.
From the R.F.B. forum
RFB range report accuracy and questions
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Hi i'm new to this forum. California RFB owner for 2 years, thus you'll see strange mods on the rifle to make it legal.
I took the RFB 18" muzzle braked out to Angeles Shooting Range for a long range precision class and used the Prvi PPU Match .308 168gr. With bipod, sand bags, 4-16x osprey scope.
At 100yards it gets sub-1MOA 3 round group, 5 second or less pauses. The problem I have been noticing is after 9 rounds or so the group spreads up to 3+MOA and the group moves up about inch to 2 inch. I let the rifle cool about 5-10 minutes then its back on point again at sub-1MOA.
When cool, those are 1 inch squares
From the RFB forum - Yes a hot barrel changes P.O.I. I always bench shoot with time gaps to cool to avoid this, or heat the gun up and shoot a hot group.
The excessively large hot group size in this guys situation is abnormal. So is the excessive POI vertical shift - (not by much though. I usually only get 1 inch hot P.O.I. shift)
Responses to the post include the rail screw tightening theories, etc. etc.
I think it is due to bipod and sand bag. Extended bench rails for a longer rest axis would probably tighten things up.
RFB range report accuracy and questions
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Hi i'm new to this forum. California RFB owner for 2 years, thus you'll see strange mods on the rifle to make it legal.
I took the RFB 18" muzzle braked out to Angeles Shooting Range for a long range precision class and used the Prvi PPU Match .308 168gr. With bipod, sand bags, 4-16x osprey scope.
At 100yards it gets sub-1MOA 3 round group, 5 second or less pauses. The problem I have been noticing is after 9 rounds or so the group spreads up to 3+MOA and the group moves up about inch to 2 inch. I let the rifle cool about 5-10 minutes then its back on point again at sub-1MOA.
When cool, those are 1 inch squares
From the RFB forum - Yes a hot barrel changes P.O.I. I always bench shoot with time gaps to cool to avoid this, or heat the gun up and shoot a hot group.
The excessively large hot group size in this guys situation is abnormal. So is the excessive POI vertical shift - (not by much though. I usually only get 1 inch hot P.O.I. shift)
Responses to the post include the rail screw tightening theories, etc. etc.
I think it is due to bipod and sand bag. Extended bench rails for a longer rest axis would probably tighten things up.
The XCR-M wasn't available when I made my choice. That being said while I would like to try the M some day I would choose the RFB if it's a one or the other comparison. Neither are going to be tack drivers. Chrome barrels, piston actions, etc. Their very designs fly in the face of what is tried and true for accurate rifles.
So do I want a rifle that looks to be imitating my AR10 but won't shoot anywhere near in the same league or do I want a semi 308 that is the same length as a Tavor? Ergos on M are better. But the compactness of the RFB is something you have to see to believe. It's much easier to shoot a 18.5" RFB off hand than a 18.5" XCR-M.
If you want accuracy get an AR10. If you want a compact easy to haul around modern semi 308 get the RFB. If you want a rifle that excells at nothing but is good all around with decent features then get the XCR-M. The XCR-M only has a niche here due to it's non restricted status. If the 308AR rifles were non restricted the XCR-M would be more of a novelty item.
