KelTec RDB vs Eh-R 180

[Joel]

2nd hand market is about $1200 now. It's not as crazy as T81 at least.
There was time that I wanted to get it as my SHTF tactical 556 lol. Yet I end up with Tavor x95 and love it.

Still, I d say that T97 is still no doubt the best price/value semiauto 223/556 option in the current market.

Definitely agreed on the value.

Excuse the crappy pic but did get some range time on a Tavor again not long ago. Excuse the crap photo. If you can afford it, definitely! But yeah...something to be said for the T97. Besides the location of the safety, theres not much to be desired for me.

Funny you mention the Type 81. Shot the fixed stock 81M too, and with what they cost on the used market?? I kind of wish I didn't haha.

 

[Army2006]

Definitely agreed on the value.

Excuse the crappy pic but did get some range time on a Tavor again not long ago. Excuse the crap photo. If you can afford it, definitely! But yeah...something to be said for the T97. Besides the location of the safety, theres not much to be desired for me.

Funny you mention the Type 81. Shot the fixed stock 81M too, and with what they cost on the used market?? I kind of wish I didn't haha.

Aye.
Tho I am simping my Israeli rai-fu, it's a real bargain for what you could get from this Chinese beauty.

And yea T81 is slowly advancing into the field of M1 on pricing, which is ridiculous. lol

 

[Bartok5]

I'd take an RDB over any of the Canadian-manufactured AR180-derivatives with the possible exception of the SAI R18 Mk2. The design is arguably KelTec's greatest, with the rifle's operating system simplicity in itself. Everything hangs off of the barrel, making field-stripping a fairly simple and straightforwards process. I found the RDB that I owned for a time to be surprisingly accurate and (once the gas was balanced) superbly reliable. The RBD has a factory trigger that is better than most rifles, let alone all other bull-pup designs that I have tried. There is minimal after-market support for the RDB, but then again if nothing breaks or requires upgrading then there isn't much to be done. The biggest single upgrade that any owner can and should make to their RDB is to buy and install the KelTec-branded Aluminum MLOK Handguard, which retains the quick-detach feature of the original, plastic Handguard. The aluminum Handguard considerably "stiffens" the entire rifle, improving the overall feel and balance of the firearm in addition to providing ample MLOK slots for the addition of a Vertical ForeGrip, Flashlight and/or Laser(s). The alumiminum Handguard should be considered a mandatory upgrade. Beyond the Handguard, MCarbo makes aluminum Triggers, reduced-pressure Trigger Springs, and so forth, so minor upgrades are available for those who wish to tinker further.

As others have noted, the only things that led me to sell my RDB were the fact that it has no military pedigree (and therefore does not "fit" my collection), and the requirement to pretty much field-strip the rifle in order to clear the rare (but still possible) stoppage. The latter in particular, is a deal-killer for any "serious" use. That said, as a recreational sporting/utility rifle the RDB cannot be beat for $1500 New retail. IMHO it is a far superior design to the Canadian-manufactured AR180B derivative rifles such as the WK-180, WS-MCR, and so forth. YMMV.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Watched a RDB choke on every stage at a match which required the user to tear down the rifle in order to clear each smashed/jammed cartridge with a gerber. I definitely wouldn't buy one after seeing that dismal failure.

The cause would have been gas setting too low but you are correct, the RDB likes to double feed and it is a real PIA to clear. Not an ideal situation to say the least.

But honestly just buy once cry and buy a higher end quality semi auto

There is a lot to be said for this.

There was time that I wanted to get it as my SHTF tactical 556 lol. Yet I end up with Tavor x95 and love it.

I've got four AR's in various configurations and am loving my X95. Yes, the X95 is not cheap but it is considerably less expensive than some rifles and one cannot impeach its combat record.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

The design is arguably KelTec's greatest, with the rifle's operating system simplicity in itself. Everything hangs off of the barrel,

One of the weirdest things I learned about the RDB is that the aluminum top rail is not solidly attached to the barrel because aluminum and steel heat up and expand at different rates. Check out the rear rail mount and you'll see that it is a slot, designed to allow the barrel and rail to move without stressing either one. THAT is a cope for a weird design and it is definitely a weakness in the final product.

Don't get me wrong I liked my RDB, until it began to double and triple. I think it's a neat rifle and innovative. It works well but it does have some weaknesses and bad habits.

 

[Tvw]

OP find yourself a T97.

The ergo's people talk about are really all not that bad if your a right handed shooter. Mag release is manipulated by thumb while holding the mag. Safety can be dealt with while back there too. It is not hard to practice with one of these guns and get its controls down and useable within quick manner of time.

People seem to rave on the trigger. However the one thing the T97 trigger has going for it is the fact that its take up and release point are predictable and always the same. Factory Tar21 has not a dang thing on the T97 trigger wise and I would almost step on my own feet to say the T97 trigger is better than the X95 FACTORY trigger. Every rifle is different, the two I have owned have been almost identical.

Not sure about the RDB however lets not forget the T97 has a Cold Hammer Forged and Chrome lined barrel.

T97 is meant to fight a war. Keltec is.. Keltec.

 

[ZeusDragon]

I'd take an RDB over any of the Canadian-manufactured AR180-derivatives with the possible exception of the SAI R18 Mk2. The design is arguably KelTec's greatest, with the rifle's operating system simplicity in itself. Everything hangs off of the barrel, making field-stripping a fairly simple and straightforwards process. I found the RDB that I owned for a time to be surprisingly accurate and (once the gas was balanced) superbly reliable. The RBD has a factory trigger that is better than most rifles, let alone all other bull-pup designs that I have tried. There is minimal after-market support for the RDB, but then again if nothing breaks or requires upgrading then there isn't much to be done. The biggest single upgrade that any owner can and should make to their RDB is to buy and install the KelTec-branded Aluminum MLOK Handguard, which retains the quick-detach feature of the original, plastic Handguard. The aluminum Handguard considerably "stiffens" the entire rifle, improving the overall feel and balance of the firearm in addition to providing ample MLOK slots for the addition of a Vertical ForeGrip, Flashlight and/or Laser(s). The alumiminum Handguard should be considered a mandatory upgrade. Beyond the Handguard, MCarbo makes aluminum Triggers, reduced-pressure Trigger Springs, and so forth, so minor upgrades are available for those who wish to tinker further.

As others have noted, the only things that led me to sell my RDB were the fact that it has no military pedigree (and therefore does not "fit" my collection), and the requirement to pretty much field-strip the rifle in order to clear the rare (but still possible) stoppage. The latter in particular, is a deal-killer for any "serious" use. That said, as a recreational sporting/utility rifle the RDB cannot be beat for $1500 New retail. IMHO it is a far superior design to the Canadian-manufactured AR180B derivative rifles such as the WK-180, WS-MCR, and so forth. YMMV.

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just buy the Defender version with the mlok aluminum forend already installed? Or is there a benefit you're aware of running the original RDB configuration + upgraded forend? (such as accuracy or other performance) Appreciate any further insight here.

 

[Can-down]

It's easier to buy the newer model that comes with the aluminum handgaurd, if both are available.

They were not always an option and there are plenty of base models out there that can only be upgraded at this point.

 

[Army2006]

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just buy the Defender version with the mlok aluminum forend already installed? Or is there a benefit you're aware of running the original RDB configuration + upgraded forend? (such as accuracy or other performance) Appreciate any further insight here.

Since you already has the best bullpup, the Hebrew hammer, you really didn't miss anything by skipping Kel-tec.
You literally saved yourself from a lot frustration and ammo cost.

Tvw:​

T97 is meant to fight a war. Keltec is... Keltec

This ^^^^^^^

 

[Horilka]

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just buy the Defender version with the mlok aluminum forend already installed? Or is there a benefit you're aware of running the original RDB configuration + upgraded forend? (such as accuracy or other performance) Appreciate any further insight here.

Mind that not everything advertised as Defender is actual Defender. What some retailers sell as "Defender" in Canada is a regular RDB 20 version with factory aluminum HG. Defender has both aluminum HG AND adjustable stock.
This is Defender with 17" barrel:




This is Defender with 20" barrel.


This is RDB 20 with updated HG, often sold as "Defender" in Canada. It also seems that HG for 20" is longer than HG for both 17 and 20 Defender.

 

[ZeusDragon]

Mind that not everything advertised as Defender is actual Defender. What some retailers sell as "Defender" in Canada is a regular RDB 20 version with factory aluminum HG. Defender has both aluminum HG AND adjustable stock.
This is Defender with 17" barrel:


View attachment 836744

This is Defender with 20" barrel.
View attachment 836745

This is RDB 20 with updated HG, often sold as "Defender" in Canada. It also seems that HG for 20" is longer than HG for both 17 and 20 Defender.
View attachment 836758

Thank you I did not realize the Defender models sold here are often just dressed up RDB20 which would actually be preferable for some including me

 

[Murray 3-D]

Buddy sold his SU16F to me and bought a late gen RDB (with the factory aluminum forend). So far its impressed me despite being a bullpup. It shouldered and shot much nicer then the T97s.... less gas around the face, superior ergos, same accuracy so far. The only thing i still prefer on the T97 is its build construction. The RDB seems very robust by Kel-Tec standards tho. The bottom eject is a double edged sword for sure. It likely contributes to the reduction in gas around the shooters face. But the confinement of the ejection port is super annoying to check and access. I personally think the SU16F is a superior shooting setup.

 

[redshooter]

I have an RDB, I also had an X-95.

Clearly the X-95 is the more durable rifle, also most parts are readily available.

I sold the X-95 because reliability wise the Kel-Tec's been more reliable, assuming the gas is set correctly. Nuts? Maybe, but over the last year I put about 500+ rds through both rifles, the RDB has been better.

That said, they've both been excellent overall, and obviously the X-95 is going to easily out last an RDB.

 

[typevii]

Mind that not everything advertised as Defender is actual Defender. What some retailers sell as "Defender" in Canada is a regular RDB 20 version with factory aluminum HG. Defender has both aluminum HG AND adjustable stock.
This is Defender with 17" barrel:


View attachment 836744

This is Defender with 20" barrel.
View attachment 836745

This is RDB 20 with updated HG, often sold as "Defender" in Canada. It also seems that HG for 20" is longer than HG for both 17 and 20 Defender.
View attachment 836758

Can we even get the adjustable stock defenders with the pencil barrel in Canada? I thought the ‘Canadian Defender’ was the only one that was being imported.
I prefer the version we get with the longer handguard. Differences in barrels I cannot comment on.
To earlier question in the thread, I shoot mostly off my left shoulder. Charging handle can be either on left or right, takes a couple of minutes to switch it. All other controls are ambi.

 

[uAJollyRogering]

Just bought rdb, have gen1 180. my 180 is stupid accurate for what i paid for it, has been generally reliable apart from sheering off a couple bolt handles early on. i love it but I don't trust it.

the rdb is incedibly simple, I have the rfb as well and it's the same deal.

I understand bartok's stance on them not being military rifles and my counterpoint is this rifle isn't going to be asked to survive 3 wars in the middle east in the hands of several different soldiers.

I don't need it to pass a 60,000 round test, i think they are plenty reliable for their intended use.

I chose the rdb over the x95 for the ambi features, the takedown simplicity, the trigger, the weight, and the longer barrel. it's a very efficient rifle re: weight and length.

 

[redshooter]

Watched a RDB choke on every stage at a match which required the user to tear down the rifle in order to clear each smashed/jammed cartridge with a gerber. I definitely wouldn't buy one after seeing that dismal failure.

On the other hand, it's a rare occasion when a Canadian made 180 makes it through a match without breaking something. At the same match, a guy running his 7.62x39 model had a cleaning rod handy so he could remove spent rounds from the chamber.

Also watched a Type 97 at the same match. Mediocre accuracy, but it got through the match with no hiccups.

I shot a Service Conditions match with my RDB, not a hiccup, in fact it's been well over 400 rds since I had a stoppage.

What you described is an issue with the shooter not setting the gas properly, it's pretty forgiving, but you do have to set it, otherwise it will double feed, no need to tear it down, but you do need a standard screwdriver to hook the rim of the jammed cases.

 

[Can-down]

I shot a Service Conditions match with my RDB, not a hiccup, in fact it's been well over 400 rds since I had a stoppage.

What you described is an issue with the shooter not setting the gas properly, it's pretty forgiving, but you do have to set it, otherwise it will double feed, no need to tear it down, but you do need a standard screwdriver to hook the rim of the jammed cases.

Sounds like it would be a good idea to have a simple home made hook tool on board the rifle somewhere....

 

[scianna54]

I shot a Service Conditions match with my RDB, not a hiccup, in fact it's been well over 400 rds since I had a stoppage.

What you described is an issue with the shooter not setting the gas properly, it's pretty forgiving, but you do have to set it, otherwise it will double feed, no need to tear it down, but you do need a standard screwdriver to hook the rim of the jammed cases.

Don't believe what everybody is posting.

I just bought a X95, took both of my type 97 gen 3 and the X95 to the range, shot one after the other (100 rounds each) - even swapped over the scope to eliminate a subjective opinion based on that - both were similar accurate and reliable, and sold the X95 right there on the range to another shooter who was all over it - to actually own a X95 at a reasonable price. He was so happy, and so was I. Local dealer wants $3,200 plus tax, so almost 3,600 for the X95, I sold for $2,740, still made $200 on it and now know what others are talking about when they praise the X95 over the moon.

 

[uAJollyRogering]

Had

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Clearly the X-95 is the more durable rifle, also most parts are readily available.

I sold the X-95 because reliability wise the Kel-Tec's been more reliable, assuming the gas is set correctly. Nuts? Maybe, but over the last year I put about 500+ rds through both rifles, the RDB has been better.

As a military derived rifle, there is no possibility the X95 is less reliable than the RDB. I owned an RDB and have experienced the dreaded double feed, which is not fun to clear. I also had a problem with the trigger doubling, which cost way too much to get fixed. I sold my RDB with no regrets.

I understand bartok's stance on them not being military rifles and my counterpoint is this rifle isn't going to be asked to survive 3 wars in the middle east in the hands of several different soldiers.

A rifle designed for military use has other benefits. It's way more rugged and durable but it can also handle being dirty and muddy and get dropped and dragged through stuff. The RDB will simply not put up with anything like that. It is much more of a range rifle ... which is fine, if that's all you ever want to use it for.

I chose the rdb over the x95 for the ambi features, the takedown simplicity, the trigger, the weight, and the longer barrel. it's a very efficient rifle re: weight and length.

The X95 conversion to LH is pretty easy, although it does require a ca. $300 bolt. The X95 takedown simplicity blows the RDB out of the water. One pin and the whole BCG pulls out as a unit. Sure the RDB trigger has a better feel but it is nowhere near as durable. Not sure about bbl length. I thought both would have an 18.5" bbl.

I just bought a X95, took both of my type 97 gen 3 and the X95 to the range, shot one after the other (100 rounds each) - even swapped over the scope to eliminate a subjective opinion based on that - both were similar accurate and reliable, and sold the X95 right there on the range to another shooter who was all over it - to actually own a X95 at a reasonable price. He was so happy, and so was I. Local dealer wants $3,200 plus tax, so almost 3,600 for the X95, I sold for $2,740, still made $200 on it and now know what others are talking about when they praise the X95 over the moon

This kinda doesn't make sense. You tried an X95 once, then loved it so much you immediately sold it and you understand why people praise the X95?