Keltec sub gen 2 vs ruger pc9 tactical

Freegun

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Hey guys

Im in the market for my first pcc

Because it is hard to get a refund on these things im trying not to learn the hardway,

Keltec sub 2000

Ruger pc9 any tactical trim version

Or anything is the same category that uses glock mag

Its my understanding that a $300 flip rail is needed to add a scope ..right? Can you put mid size tactical scope on the keltec?

They say the keltec has plastic feels (does it weight and feel like the gsg-16?)
The gsg-16 22lr feels like a toy, and im not a big fan of polymer and i like things that last .

On the other hand The ruger pc9 is heavier and causing more fatigue but will also allow longer session because the barrel is meant to shoot a little longer.. is this true?
But i understand that it has an issue with the extractor and requires an adapter to use glock mag

I might choose the ruger over the keltec only because i like to use tact scope …but Is there something else in the same price range i should look at?
 
Keltec is not even close. I have owned everything they have ever released in Canada. Of the two guns I have had blow up in my face one was a gen-2 Sub-2000. 4 rounds and it blew in half. The fanboys always say there was a recall but it wasn't the problem. The Ruger isn't amazing but I have two with over 6000 rounds each and no issues.
 
So what do you recommend?

Clearly the sub-2000, It will save you a fortune in ammo costs!

:)

Get the basic Ruger or the more tacticool if that floats your boat... the extra weight will just make you stronger and save the cost and time of going to the gym.
 
The Ruger is a much better firearm overall than the sub 2000. The advantage of the sub2k is that it folds and is very light weight, so good for packing when weight is a concern.

Also the Ruger come with the Glock magazine adapter in the box so nothing additional needs to be bought
 
Well the folding feature can be useful, but it is not something i need or find important. An easy to install out of the box, 3x or 4x scope is way more important. I don't know if i want to spend $300 for a flip rail that require a cantilever to add a tactical scope close enough to the eye.

I have a gsg-16 i use for plinking.. but it jams too often, and feels like an airsoft toy. I only keep it because it uses 0.15 cents ammo.

Anyway I want to move to the next level.. Im looking for something with a little more recoil.. with a real tactical zoom scope not a red dot. I don't need a red dot to aim right.. i need a 4x to see my grouping as im shooting. I plan to use the pcc at 25y mostly (50 max)

In my area, they only have in stock the ruger pc9 in two or three versions. The JR carsbine and the Keltec 2000.

I eliminated the jr carb because of price and seems horrible to clean. But a keltec 2000 with the flip rail and cantilever will cost as much.

They have ofcourse the hi-point but they don't use glock mag if im nit mistaken. And there must be a reason for the hi point to be cheaper.
Ive used my friends glock a couple of times, my plan is to get a glock someday, thats the reason i only consider glock ready pcc

Eventually ill look into reloading
 
Freegun, given what you said about what you're looking for the choice is clearly the Ruger at this point. Probably the most reliable out of the box, and they definitely feel solid. Have you been able to handle one in person? They feel heavy and unbalanced to me though, which is why I don't have one.

I like the KelTec a lot (weight and balance), but it is super plasticky and does not have great optics mounting options. I'd get one as a second (or third) PCC if the price was about half the current retail, which is what I think they're worth.

Don't bother with the HiPoint if you don't like things that feel cheap. And the magazine situation is unsatisfactory.

Guys I know love their JR Carbines. I love my TNW ASR, but by the time you add the extended forend (which it sounds like you'll want), the price gets up there along with the midrange options (e.g. FX9, I think?).
 
So what do you recommend?

Definitely the Ruger, sorry I thought that was obvious. They are heavy and recoil somewhat more than other PCCs in my opinion but I can't argue the reliability of the ones I have. They are both very early guns and I can't say I clean them much or very well.
 
Definitely the Ruger, sorry I thought that was obvious. They are heavy and recoil somewhat more than other PCCs in my opinion but I can't argue the reliability of the ones I have. They are both very early guns and I can't say I clean them much or very well.

Recoil more??? How do you figure that?

Also, who gives a rat's azz about recoil in a 9mm carbine?
 
I run multigun matches in the Lower Mainland and there is NO CHOICE between the two: the Keltec is a piece of crap. The OIC forced everyone to store their ARs, and many moved to PCCs for competition. There are lots of Ruger PC9s out there, and more than a few FX-9s. Both run well, but the Ruger has more aftermarket upgrades and is quite a bit cheaper. There are a few Kriss Vectors on the circuit, and they run well, but not an option if cost is a factor. FWIW I've not seen a JRC or ASR carbine at a match over the past 10 years...

Over the years I've seen a half-dozen Sub2ks (both Gens) at the matches, and they NEVER survive the day. They just aren't built well.
 
I have the Ruger PCC9 in basic configuration and the JR Carbine

Ruger is more solid but feels heaver, especially front end. the take down is feature is very slick!
JR is tatticool right out of the box. just add a red dot and you are GTG

for a truck/ATV/backpack gun the Ruger wins hands down
for a range, mag dump, Rainbow 6, Master Chief gun the JR carbine wins

i am happy to own both as they are each better at different things
 
I just picked up a gen 1 Sub2000 today, I've owned two Rugers (have 1 still).

They're really two entirely different guns, and it really depends on what you plan on doing with it. Yes the Ruger is a take down, but in my opinion it wouldn't be my first pick for a pack gun, as it's pretty hefty and thicc. But I don't worry about bringing them out and putting rounds through them because they also feel and behave like a durable, dependable gun.

The Sub2000 I just picked up today, it looks and feels cheap and somewhat fragile. It would not be my first pick as a high volume range blaster, however as a pack gun; it breaks down much more compactly, in one piece and even quicker (not that the Ruger is difficult in the least) and at like half the weight.
 
Most local stores around my house have the ruger pc9. But only one has the sub2k but it is like 2h driving but unfortunately they don't have the ruger in stock. In other words, i'll have to spend hours driving back and forth just to try them out.

According to the specs the sub2k weights like 4 pounds, while the ruger is near 7 pounds.

In comparison, the gsg-16 is a little over 5 pounds.. and a gen 19 glock is like 1.6-9 lbs.
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried to hold the keltec sub (like a pistol) is it well balanced to be held like a pistol?

Anyway, Ive spent the last couple of days reading reviews and here what came up to my attention,

Ruger have a good repair service under warranty, and outside its warranty most parts are easy to find. they can even ship some parts if you know how to fix it yourself.
I was told jr carabine service is a little trickier when it comes to replace parts (they don't ship parts, true?)

The keltec sub2k is more of a survival, backup carabine. Not really designed for heavy usage.
Because of the recoils , depending how you hold it, the stock might pinch your face a little more .

it feels plastic, like most glock anyway..but it so lightweight you can almost hold it like a pistol.. don't know if that is true.
 
Nope... Glock plastic still feels solid. KelTec feels like cheap crap, and breaks like it.

Yes, in the original configuration it folds in half and may be a handy, compact backup. I just don't think there is any real utility for it. I sold mine and will never buy another.
 
Most local stores around my house have the ruger pc9. But only one has the sub2k but it is like 2h driving but unfortunately they don't have the ruger in stock. In other words, i'll have to spend hours driving back and forth just to try them out.
...
Because of the recoils , depending how you hold it, the stock might pinch your face a little more .
...

Freegun, apparently I care a lot about this thread! I just sat down for a quick comment and this happened:

Too bad you can't handle the options side by side, you would probably have no trouble deciding then. If I were in your shoes and I was very serious about this purchase, I might suck it up and make the drive. Or, if the credit card allows I would order my top two (or three) options online and try a few mags through each, side by side at your home range. Choose your keeper and remove all doubt. If you buy smart you'll lose relatively little selling the others. Great learning experience, too.

Feel is mostly subjective, and the handling is just so different with many of these... You could easily try just one and wind up thinking that PCCs are not for you because it felt weird. Or it gradually turns you off as the novelty wears off and shootability becomes more important. For example, while they're undoubtedly a great option for many, the Ruger options all feel terrible on my shoulder. And I mean terrible.

As said above, the Sub 2000 is really built for a different application from the other PCC options. For casual and infrequent use, any choice will probably work well enough. For serious and/or high round count use, choose something other than the Sub2000. If lightweight and packable is what you want, go for the Sub2000. Or the TNW ASR, actually - If you want to be able to change calibers for whatever reason, the TNW is unique in that regard. If you really don't like tinkering, it seems like the Ruger or JR Carbine or FX9 might be your best bet (while some of these fail, they appear to be more reliable on average).

Regardless of the folding feature (which may or may not be useful to you), the Sub2000 is very different from the other options both because of the light weight and balance (magazine in the grip changes everything). Many probably work just fine out of the box, and a tinkerer can get them to be "reliable enough" if yours doesn't. I would gladly own one for a woods/beater/plinking rifle just because they carry and handle so nicely. But for me they cost far too much for what they are. They have a very cheap plastic feel that's hard to describe unless you've handled another KelTec. Like, if it's really cold out you have to be careful putting it down on a shooting bench. This is in stark contrast to the solid, quality plastic feel that most polymer pistols have. And the Sub2000 stock sights are poor (but usable, at least until they break). I really like it for what it is, but the build quality is really not in the same league as the other options.

The Sub2000 is the lightest option by far, so simple physics dictates that it has the greatest free recoil. Coupled with a balance point closer to the operator, there is going to be more perceived recoil. Also, since many people have to really mash their cheekbone onto the buffer tube to get a usable sight picture, the recoil impulse is less pleasant. One of the KelTec accessories is a buffer tube pad just for this. Unless you step way up the PCC food chain to the Kriss Vector, all of these options have the same straight-blowback action. Among the common semi auto actions, this type has the greatest perceived recoil. The heavier platforms (like the Ruger) have less perceived recoil than the lighter options just because of physics. In my understanding, physics also tells us that the heavier options will tend to be more mechanically reliable at least partly because they are more tolerant of users "limp shouldering" them during firing - The same idea as malfunctions in a pistol due to "limp wristing". We'll probably never see good data on this, but it could explain a good deal of the apparent difference in reliability that we see between the options.
 
...
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried to hold the keltec sub (like a pistol) is it well balanced to be held like a pistol?
....

If you really want to shoot a long gun 1-handed like a pistol, I'm 100% confident that the Sub2000 will be the NR PCC that balances best for this. After trying it for novelty (and possibly taking damage from the reciprocating operating handle), I think you probably won't ever want to do it again. Unless one day you find a need for blind fire from cover!
 
Most local stores around my house have the ruger pc9. But only one has the sub2k but it is like 2h driving but unfortunately they don't have the ruger in stock. In other words, i'll have to spend hours driving back and forth just to try them out.

.

Order online at one of the sponsors, usually much cheaper. When I was new to the game, I bought locally and it is not like you can handle the gun in the store for more than a few seconds.

I had the Kel tec and had high expectations. I really hate the sights and the charging handle is a work out, my wife cannot even charge it and I didn't like it as well.

Most people who buy the SUB2000 upgrade it to make it a decent gun and those parts are not cheap. I thought that the folding mechanism is cool but for me the negative aspects outweigh that.
 
Ok thanks everyone,

I've decided to try the sub2k. I found a store about 1.5 hour driving from where i live that had both in stock. I was able to hold both carabines and see…

The ruger felt alot more solid, and i really liked how you pull the barrel out with a press of a button and a small twist & pull.

But the sub2k won.. and here is why.

I don't have my Rpal and i don't plan to get it anytime soon. But i'd like to have a handgun and to be able to use it without those annoying restrictions.

I went to the shooting range with the sub2k and believe it or not i was able to use it like a handgun. Sure it wasn't like the real thing, but close enough to a handgun that i think we can get out of a non restricted. My grouping was terrible but i had no fatigue holding it like a pistol.

At the store, i tried holding the ruger (the pistol grip tactical version) like a pistol and hell no, there is no way i could fire a ruger pc9 like a pistol. Way too heavy.

But i may pick the ruger sometime in the future though.. because i think the ruger a better investmentm than the sub2k But the sub2k, it is my sort of first pistol

The sub2k is far from perfect, The sights are horrible, especially if you are wearing earmuff and protective eye glasses.

For precision rifle stance, An after market red dot is a must with the sub2k.. i went ahead and bought two red dots, a $50 feyachi rds 25 and a $200 vortex. I will keep the vortex and send back the feyachi to amazon..
For now i will just use quick release mount on the original rail…until i can find the mcarbo flip mount locally..

I also bought a second glock 17 mag $40, a maglula uplula reloader $50 and over 1k of 9mm ammunition $350.

Im planing to spend another $1000 in the next couple of months. i have three choices, thinking about the ruger pc9, a 223 rifle, or a dillon reloading kit.

This hobby is addictive.
 
Ok thanks everyone,

I've decided to try the sub2k. ....

Great choice, I'm sure you'll have a blast with it. You have an unusual reason for making your choice, but whatever floats your boat - There's lots to enjoy about the Sub2000. Good decision to buy a healthy amount of ammo.

Unless you put a riser under your RDS, I found that earplugs work better than any muffs for the Sub2000. Similarly, some types of glasses work better than others.
 
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