Knowledge on buying a Lee enfield
- Thread starter rockymountain8
- Start date
It's a rifle I have never heard of until now and I'm looking into getting it.
Most types of milsurps, not all, are much easier to learn to shoot than a Lee Enfield of any mark. All have issues, but the chances of getting a milsurp that will shoot as well as most "used" commercial rifles are very good, even with commercial ammunition.
Let me give you two examples of commonly loved milsurps many extol on this site. 6.5x55 Swede Mausers, built on the 96 Mauser platform, and the 8x57 Mausers built on the 98 Mauser platform. Many of them shoot better than the people operating them. Not all of them by any means.
All sorts of reasons for them not to shoot well, from throat and muzzle wear to sloppy bedding. Bore diameters seemed to have much tighter controls, especially on the Swede Mausers. At least the first batches to enter Canada, even the M94 types did. As time went on and they started scraping the bottom of the barrel, some well worn, broken, Good Only rifles started to show up. Very soon afterward, those folks who missed out on the minty fresh out of FTR specimens, picked up these latter rifles at what they thought were very good prices. They were, IF the buyer was looking to do a build with the action.
98 Mausers were similar but earlier.
The thing is, with both of these models and all of their different marks or deviations, the only bore diameter issue you had to worry about was whether or not they shot .318 or .323 ammunition, or "j" or "JS" type bullets.
Bedding issues were obvious, if there was one and most smiths could pin point any issues quickly
Both types of rifles operate similarly to most commercial offerings, which are often based on the same design.
Not so with Lee Enfields. Most smiths stay clear of them, and don't want to work on them, other than to replace parts. They often have no idea why these rifles don't shoot well and if they do take on the job, you're going to have a long wait.
On the other hand Bearhunter, isn't it also true that there are probably several hundred thousand sporterized Lee Enfields in Canada, most of which shoot within perfectly acceptable parameters for their users?
The mechanism is very simple and compared to many other milsurps, easy to access and tweak. The only really unique tools needed are a firing pin wrench and a recessed slot driver for the foresight screw, if there is one. Headspace gauges are nice, but people have used cartridge cases and feeler gauges to do the same thing. HS gauges are not expensive either.
If the bore is very good, the accuracy problems are not that hard to diagnose: if the bolt matches and the bolthead is square to the chamber you're pretty much guaranteed good results in my experience, unless there is some serious problem with the stocking and I don't find that hard to tweak either.
rockymountain8 I've seen several decent looking sporterized but restorable No.4s recently in the 300-400 dollar range. Saw the firing pin tools the other day for $35 each.
Try to get one with the trigger hung on the receiver, not the trigger guard. You can spot those easily as they have a hole and crossbolt on the back of the forend instead of the usual cross-strap.
The mechanism is very simple and compared to many other milsurps, easy to access and tweak. The only really unique tools needed are a firing pin wrench and a recessed slot driver for the foresight screw, if there is one. Headspace gauges are nice, but people have used cartridge cases and feeler gauges to do the same thing. HS gauges are not expensive either.
If the bore is very good, the accuracy problems are not that hard to diagnose: if the bolt matches and the bolthead is square to the chamber you're pretty much guaranteed good results in my experience, unless there is some serious problem with the stocking and I don't find that hard to tweak either.
rockymountain8 I've seen several decent looking sporterized but restorable No.4s recently in the 300-400 dollar range. Saw the firing pin tools the other day for $35 each.
Try to get one with the trigger hung on the receiver, not the trigger guard. You can spot those easily as they have a hole and crossbolt on the back of the forend instead of the usual cross-strap.
Last edited:
Keep in mind 7.5x55 can be found, but its also going to save you a ton reloading it. Its pretty pricey.
Swede m96 mausers are excellent too. I had a nice short rifle...shoulda kept it. But almost all my fave hunting rifles are in 6.5 swede...so it opened the door.
So would you recommend sporterized rifles? Others advised me to avoid them. What kind of things are done to rilfes to sporterize them? Other than things I can see clearly like stocks and rail mounts drilled on.
My first ever Lee Enfield was a sporterized 1917 bsa mkIII* my dad gave me in the 1980’s. He had bought with out of a barrel of rifles in some hardware store in the early 1970’s. It had a dark bore but still shot pretty well. I harvested some animals with it before getting into nicer sporting rifles.
Sporters can shoot well and make great general purpose or camp rifles. But they will never be original again, so if you want one in military trim, buy one that way.
It’s not cost effective to buy a spotter and try to convert it to what you really want. I’m the end you’ll have a rifle that looks sort of right, it is probably a poorly bedded inaccurate rifle, likely with a bunch of binding DP marked parts of suspect serviceability that look out of place on a WW1 receiver.
Sporters can shoot well and make great general purpose or camp rifles. But they will never be original again, so if you want one in military trim, buy one that way.
It’s not cost effective to buy a spotter and try to convert it to what you really want. I’m the end you’ll have a rifle that looks sort of right, it is probably a poorly bedded inaccurate rifle, likely with a bunch of binding DP marked parts of suspect serviceability that look out of place on a WW1 receiver.
Depends on your budget. I had the impression you were looking to spend less than a typical decent full wood Lee Enfield goes for these days in decent shape?
The only non-obvious mods I can think of off hand are people grinding some of the depth off the face of the cocking piece to try to get a shorter pull-off or messing with the bedding unsuccessfully. People who had to have a single stage trigger or #### on closing of the bolt tended to go somewhere else like the P.14/M17. But Bubba is surprisingly creative!
If your considering a sporter, look for a nice Churchill or Parker Hale...or a factory BSA p14 sporting rifle. (I just picked up a very nice one) Not a backyard job. It could double as an Iron site hunting rifle.
If you had a big wad of cash I'd say a Lee Speed sporting rifle. But they are more than a military wood enfield...and addicting. Haha.
If you had a big wad of cash I'd say a Lee Speed sporting rifle. But they are more than a military wood enfield...and addicting. Haha.
"On the other hand Bearhunter, isn't it also true that there are probably several hundred thousand sporterized Lee Enfields in Canada, most of which shoot within perfectly acceptable parameters for their users?"
That may have been true a decade ago but there are very few of them, sportered or full military, in use today. Most people like to have them around for one reason or another, but that being said, they most certainly aren't as visible in the field these days. IMHO, most of them are just taking up space in the shed, closet, or safe.
I will say there are some people who use them for hunting and milsurp matches. Most people don't want them, for all sorts of personal reasons.
You either love them or hate them, if you use them regularly. Most people could care less about them one way or the other.
Go to a gun show, Lee Enfields in military configuration, sell well, but the price on them has come down at least 25% over the last year.
Sporters go from show to show, with the same vendors, who insist they're going to get $250+ out of them, depending on how they're stocked or how advanced the smithing job was. A No4 with a decent bore and chopped military wood often goes for half that much.
Do they shoot acceptably, who knows, until you shoot them and if they're being shot by someone who knows how to shoot????
The days of these rifles being a "cheap" starter rifle are long gone. Ammunition is now as expensive as it is for any other commercial rifle and it's heavy in comparison. Ammunition can be almost impossible to find in some locations.
I went through a North BC city last fall and dropped into the gunshop on the outskirts, heading north. They had a half dozen boxes of 303 Brit, all the same weight and quality, from the same manufacturer, $65/box and it wasn't premium ammo.
A newbie can purchase a commercial offering, such as a Savage or Ruger, built for the low end market for a similar price, with readily available ammunition, often with a scope/rifle package, and chambered for readily available ammunition, offered in different weights, by different manufacturers, with multiple quality grades, at the same or lower prices.
If the Lee Enfield appeals to a newbie and you're willing to mentor, by all means give or sell one to them. Just make sure they know what they're getting into, and be sure in your own mind the rifle you're selling them is capable.
Lee Enfields which have been sitting in a safe for fifty years or even ten, still need care. A Remington SPS, Savage Axis or Ruger in a plastic stock will still be fine. If you're a newbie, not interested in dickering, or could care less about the nostalgic value, which rifle would you choose?
Last edited:
No I'm fine with spending more to have a rifle with full wood in decent shape so long as I can shoot with it somewhat accurately . I'm a fan of Lee Enfields due to their history so I would want to get one as original as possible.
Having full wood doesn't mean it will be acceptably accurate. Bedding in these rifles is critical.
Some sporters shoot like lazers, when the bedding is in good condition.
If you get one of these rifles, if it's a sporter, my advice to you is to glass bed the ways, with a bit of upward pressure at the tip of the fore end. Make a bed for the barrel to rest on, then adjust it with a round or half round file, until the harmonics settle down.
When these rifles are set up properly, they have a spacer between the king screw and the receiver, this spacer serves several purposes and is as often as not missing. Sometimes this "king screw spacer" is missing in full wood rifles as well, depending on who dicked with it last.
Back in the day, when these rifles were surplussed, the ways would work loose, from shooting or shrinkage or damage done by the operator when stripping it down.
The king screw spacer does many jobs, it keeps the ways of the receiver tight against the surfaces on the receiver it's supposed to contact, keeps the proper six pounds of upward pressure on the muzzle at the same time, stops the wood from being crushed at the king screw point and keeps the proper contact between the trigger and sear at the disconnect point. If any of the above mentioned points wear, shrink, or in some other way become altered or the controller is discarded/lost. Accuracy will usually go awry soon afterwards.
rockymountain8, these riles were regularly stripped down for cleaning and re application of linseed oil, both by troops and armorers to keep them shooting well, whether they were stored or shot. It's not something you can just put away and forget, after cleaning the bore.
Another thing, coming onto CGN for help to accurize the rifle isn't just an easy ask and someone will tell you, unless you're a very lucky person.
When that king screw spacer goes missing and the damage is done, then you will have to address all of the above locations. Trigger/Sear issues etc.
One of the biggest issues which screws up the ways is how the fore end is removed for cleaning and maintenance. It can't be levered down from the fore end front. It has to be pulled downwards and slightly forward at the same time from the rear area, just above the trigger guard, and it has to be reattached in a reverse manner. You will notice, the butt stock socket is sloped and if you pull straight down or try to lever it off the bedding by pulling down on the tip of the fore end, you will compress the ways inletted into the wood and bugger the bedding.
This is just the simple beginning of the learning curve.
I like your enthusiasm, and hope you do well on the Lee Enfield you purchase.
Don't forget the usual vertical crack at the rear of the forened. No1 mk3 have to have forened removed before you take off the butt. I have cleaned, de greased and jb welded a few. My lithgow is jb welded back there. But it fits snugly into the draws and shoots well, especially my cast at 1800fps.
That happens when a nimrod takes off the fore end, without thinking.
My "short" diatribe wasn't meant to give the OP full details and thanx for adding to it. It was just a good start for a rifle "without" visible issues.
My "short" diatribe wasn't meant to give the OP full details and thanx for adding to it. It was just a good start for a rifle "without" visible issues.
Last edited:
Thanks for the information brother. Almost every response I have gotten has been one big information dump but I really appreciate it all.
Lee Enfields are either a love affair or "avoid at all costs"
When they perform well, they are excellent in both martial, match and sporting configuration. When they don't perform well ??????????
If you're the love to tinker type, have fun. I did and don't regret any of it.
My Dad had a pristine 1950 Long Branch No4 that he bought way back when for $50, that he said was unfired. It looked brand new so maybe it was never fired? All my life it was like a collectible and he never wanted to fire it. When I inherited it, I decided to fire it. The rifle shot consistent 2 MOA groups at 100 meters using the large battle aperture. It had no problem hitting a full IPSC plate at 400 meters. Solid rifle.
Lee Enfield rifles were spread all over the globe. A surplus rifle could have come here from anywhere. There may or may not have been an adequate ordnance system maintaining the rifles. Look at the stuff being imported into the US from Ethiopia by RTI, or the Nepalese cache by IMA.
There was a time when a DCRA or PRA shooter could buy a brand new Long Branch direct from one of the CODs. $45. The 1955 No. 4 Mk 2s came from the British war reserve.
There was a time when a DCRA or PRA shooter could buy a brand new Long Branch direct from one of the CODs. $45. The 1955 No. 4 Mk 2s came from the British war reserve.
Don't forget the Pakistan POF, No4 MkII rifles or the Indian RFI, No 1 MkIII and later 7.62x51 versions of the No 1 MkIII which came in after the Maltby, No4 MkII.
The POF variant MkII rifles were built on Maltby equipment, purchased from the Brits, and were excellent in fit, as well as quality. Not only that, they were all fitted with beautiful dark grained Circassian Walnut stocks. I had three of them, consecutively numbered and all three had .310 diameter bores. They shot .308 diameter bullets into 2-3 moa, loved the .310 diameter 7.62x54r pulled bullets, from all makers/weights and used to be cheap.
I've always wondered if those lovely rifles with excellent barrels were purpose built to utilize the .310 bullet diameter, which the Pakistanis used in some of their own machine guns and other firearms, of if it was just convenient for them, because they were producing multi millions of .310 diameter bullets for so many different countries for use in the ammo they also loaded for them.
POF or Pakistan Ordnance Factory makes ammunition/arms for a lot of nations, all over the world, including Canada, US, UK, Russia, France, Italy and many others. It's likely the largest company in Pakistan.
The POF variant MkII rifles were built on Maltby equipment, purchased from the Brits, and were excellent in fit, as well as quality. Not only that, they were all fitted with beautiful dark grained Circassian Walnut stocks. I had three of them, consecutively numbered and all three had .310 diameter bores. They shot .308 diameter bullets into 2-3 moa, loved the .310 diameter 7.62x54r pulled bullets, from all makers/weights and used to be cheap.
I've always wondered if those lovely rifles with excellent barrels were purpose built to utilize the .310 bullet diameter, which the Pakistanis used in some of their own machine guns and other firearms, of if it was just convenient for them, because they were producing multi millions of .310 diameter bullets for so many different countries for use in the ammo they also loaded for them.
POF or Pakistan Ordnance Factory makes ammunition/arms for a lot of nations, all over the world, including Canada, US, UK, Russia, France, Italy and many others. It's likely the largest company in Pakistan.
Last edited:
