"KRISS Super V Wins Best Close Quarter Combat Weapon "
- Thread starter Power Pill
- Start date
i have shot HK UMP, Uiz and MP5 a little (about 30G total ). i would not bet my life on MP5 (dont get me wrong i love MP5 and it is a really good SMG. i know i am getting ear full from other people, please forgive me ! ) if i am in some where in dirty, cold or wet that need SMG for sound suppression or low profile work. HK put tooo much shxx in small platform, that is why they got UMP. I think i felt same for KRISS but i could be wrong. however, if you give me a UZI or UMP i know i will be fine. i have a UMP SF and IT IS ONLY GUN i ever own that work - 25 c (medicine hat outdoor range). For UZI, i have personally saw a guy use his UZI as a hammer and still able to empty out mags after mags (he was A DRUNK FUXX).
What's the ballistic profile of a 45ACP round at 100 yards? - I think I'd go with what the US Gov't went with for a PDW the first time around (30 M1 Carbine) instead. Funny that were still rehashing questions from seventy years ago, sad that we're not learning from the answers.
Most pistol rounds won't penetrate body armour.
The Kriss is a task specific firearm. I suspect that in the event the SWAT team encounters the unlikely situation that requires the penetration of body armour they would just switch to an AR.
Even in that case some body armour stop 5.56 as well. Maybe we should all haul around the .50 BMG assault rifles, then no body armour will be safe. LOL
As far as I'm concerned, if a SWAT team member doesn't always assume that a suspect is wearing body armour, he's an idiot. The fact is: the Kriss (and all other pistol caliber SMG/PDW) don't do anything more than a short barreled AR (or P90/MP7). However, a short barreled AR or P90/MP7 can do a heck of a lot more than a Kriss or MP5. So the point is, why would a SWAT team even bother with a Kriss or MP5 when there are many other tools that do more. Even if a suspect isn't wearing body armour, a rifle round, even the "anemic" 5.56, inflicts much more trauma than a pistol round, even a 45ACP.
I can't remember who said it here on CGN, but I'll paraphrase it:
"The KRISS answers the question that nobody asked".
The KRISS is a nice toy, but useless compared to its competitors.
I agree with your main point entirely: any PDW which cannot penetrate body armor is obsolete.
This is the only reason why HK MP5 has been replaced by HK MP7 and HK P90 by most special forces and many SWAT units.
The MP5 does everything great at close quarters but cannot penetrate modern body armor and any criminal/terrorist is almost immune to 9mm and 45 ACP gunfire.
Alex
Last edited:
MP5A5 (Semi/Burst/FA)
Calibre: 9mm (30 round mag)
Barrel Length: 8.9"
Mass: 6.8 lbs
OAL: 21.7"-26.7" (Collapsing Stock)
ROF: 800 RPM
UMP45
Calibre: 45ACP (25 round mag)
Barrel Length: 8.0"
Mass: 5 lbs
OAL: 17.7"-27.2" (Folding Stock)
ROF: 600 RPM
Kriss Super-V SMG
Calibre: 45ACP (30 round mag)
Barrel Length: 5.5"
Mass: 5.2 lbs
OAL: 16.0"-24.3" (Folding Stock)
ROF: 1100 RPM
Now back at SHOT the next gen Kriss Super-V SMG was being updated with the K10 version which gets rid of many of the extra fluff features and exchanges the horrible (IMHO) folding stock for a telescoping one.
The only advantages that the Kriss might have are:
1. The rate of fire and they slowed it down from 1500 RPM. (Oh look 30 rounds in 1.2 Sec).
2. Possibly the overall volume of the entire collapsed firearm.
3. Possible ease of field stripping/cleaning? As I have never field stripped the H&K's I cannot compare that aspect.
subsonic 9mm can be suppressed much better with pretty decent terminal ballistic. Subsonice 4.7 or 5.7 are kinda useless. Pistol SMGs probably still have reasons to exist - such as shooting guard dogs and stuff.
The KRISS is probably still a fun gun to shoot - maybe it has some place in pest control and home defence. Blasting a 10.5" 5.56 in a home defence situation without suppressor will probably end up in bleeding ears.
- Location
- Montréal, Québec
Not a viable option for me until its in 10mm.
Impressive someone quote me 5 years before i write this ! ... lol...
Every one can see it's just a new ###y cool gun on the market. The statement on the web site '' major breakthrough '' is a bit too much, Interesting design is closer to the reality.
The selection of a gun for LE or Mil is done by a pen pusher beyond his desk. In the reality, you deal the situation with tool you have.
Every one can see it's just a new ###y cool gun on the market. The statement on the web site '' major breakthrough '' is a bit too much, Interesting design is closer to the reality.
The selection of a gun for LE or Mil is done by a pen pusher beyond his desk. In the reality, you deal the situation with tool you have.
no disrespect
but i dont think SMG that can not penetrate modern body armor is obsolete. it is because we do not use SMG for that reason and it was never intend to be use as a main weapon (more like specialized application weapons). as you know now days SMG is used only for low profile job and sound suppression (i know, i can hide a MP5PDW under my suit jacket fairly well if i am not wearing level 3a armor. for A HK G33K or HK G36C no way). for sound suppression, sure we can suppressed 5.56 pretty well about 30db reduction with wet? but 5.56 is mach 3 rounds you have to deal with the supersonic crack also it is a hot rifle round (i guess P90 and MP7 are in same shxx list). for 9mm, you dont have to work too much to suppressed 9mm and lose maybe a little (if you use a subsonic round)and 45 ACP, you dont have to work at all because 230 gr round travel under speed of sound (well if you can find a can that able to work with .45 inch whole). i think "9mm and 45 are almost immune to human body" that is down right dangerous thinking. if a person with level 2 or 3a got multiple hits with 9mm or 45, he will be on his ass and crying also a body-armor only covers 30% of body mass.
depending on body armour as well multiple repetitive hits to the same area can breach it. Ceramic armour / kevlar composite can displace high velocity rounds but in tests I have seen it will be eventually breached by repetitive overstrikes in the same area. I don't believe that it is likely however as the first shot will start the motion / reaction and multiple hits on the exact same spot are possible but unlikely. Course I still wouldn't want to be shot by a 1100 rpm gun with 230g rounds because it is going to hurt like a mofo.... and as the poster above made the point most people don't wear a bomb suit around. the wigglers on the bottom and sides are vulnerable and 45 round hitting any of that will be extremely upsetting... even day ruining.
