LAR-15 30(10) rd Pistol Magazines?

I think the issue is the length. There are common 20 rounders, common 30 rounders, but no common 10 rounders. I've never seen a 10 round (not pinned - an actual 'full cap' 10 rounder) before these came on the scene (LAR-15).

b) The cartridge magazine for this handgun as manufactured by C Products LLC is not an adaption of a magazine designed and manufactured for use in a semi-automatic rifle.

I think if you altered a 20/30 rounder, you'd have an issue, because you're 'adapting it' for use in a pistol, even though that mag was DESIGNED for use in a rifle.

Also

3. The design that has been found acceptable as a handgun magazine is held by the RCMP, Firearms Support Services, Firearms Reference Table Section as a "pattern". This particular design and NO other design is approved for use as a “handgun magazine for a handgun commonly available in Canada”.

Don't know if that's just a 'catch all' to prevent others from trying to make one, but it seems pretty clear.

NO one would be opposed to bringing 30/10's to the market - I just don't think it's 'legal' in the RCMP's eyes.
 
RobAK said:
Imagine that, the firearms bureacracy changing/tightening laws by "interpretation".
It must be nice to make up your own laws knowing most effected can't afford to call them on it, and the politicians certainly have no interest in it.
Sorry, rant over.
Can Am, can you let us in on what the scoop is?
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Rant on, because you've nailed it.

The law reads "Designed and manufactured for..."
We generally assumed that meant both conditions applied.

When the CX4 came on the market, the RCMP seemed to split the definition, and gave priority to designed for.

When CX4 marked mags were shipped, the RCMP seemed to reverse themselves and gave priority to manufactured for.

When the RRA 10 rounders were approved, they seemed to be fixated on a clean sheet design for a handgun, which negates thier previous position, seeming to insist that the magazine be both designed and manufactured for a pistol.

While it would not surprise me if they have yet again changed thier minds, but I'd like to see it in writing.
 
If that IS the case, why couldn't you just design a 29 round mag pinned to 10...not designed for a rifle as it is a new design only for pistols???



canucklehead said:
I think the issue is the length. There are common 20 rounders, common 30 rounders, but no common 10 rounders. I've never seen a 10 round (not pinned - an actual 'full cap' 10 rounder) before these came on the scene (LAR-15).

b) The cartridge magazine for this handgun as manufactured by C Products LLC is not an adaption of a magazine designed and manufactured for use in a semi-automatic rifle.

I think if you altered a 20/30 rounder, you'd have an issue, because you're 'adapting it' for use in a pistol, even though that mag was DESIGNED for use in a rifle.

Also

3. The design that has been found acceptable as a handgun magazine is held by the RCMP, Firearms Support Services, Firearms Reference Table Section as a "pattern". This particular design and NO other design is approved for use as a “handgun magazine for a handgun commonly available in Canada”.

Don't know if that's just a 'catch all' to prevent others from trying to make one, but it seems pretty clear.

NO one would be opposed to bringing 30/10's to the market - I just don't think it's 'legal' in the RCMP's eyes.
Click to expand...
 
Chemist said:
If that IS the case, why couldn't you just design a 29 round mag pinned to 10...not designed for a rifle as it is a new design only for pistols???
Click to expand...

Because the needs of Canadians are somewhere at the very bottom of the totem pole when it comes to manufacturing parts. To make it economically viable, it would have to be sold in the US...and who is going to buy a 29rd mag when they can buy a 30rd?
 
There are states in the US with as screwy or even screwery gun laws than ours, just look at California.
 
It was asked already, but can we preorder these? I would like to have an opportunity to buy a few before falling victim to the people who rush in and buy bulk lots leaving none for the rest of us.
 
CNADNSL8-5 said:
When these become available. are you going to post a ruling like Questar did?
Click to expand...
We aren't seeking a "ruling" (from the king?). Questar paved the way nicely, and the RCMP lab set a precedent by stating that a magazine designed for a rifle, but manufactured, and marked, for a pistol, is OK at 10rds. Remember the law, "designed OR manufactured", not AND.
 
CanAm said:
We aren't seeking a "ruling" (from the king?). Questar paved the way nicely, and the RCMP lab set a precedent by stating that a magazine designed for a rifle, but manufactured, and marked, for a pistol, is OK at 10rds. Remember the law, "designed OR manufactured", not AND.
Click to expand...

At the moment I dissagree, but I am not a lawer, so my opinion does not mean anything. I'll keep it to that. I don't want to pollute your thread. I will go back and re read the CC and the CFC/RCMP ruling again...and again...and again... to see if I am missing something.
 
I will get everyone started:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/sor-98-462/latest/sor-98-462.html

Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations​

3. (1) Any cartridge magazine
(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in
(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,
(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,
(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,
(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,
(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or
(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

One could argue that since all ar-type magazines are designed for the rifle, even when manufactured for a pistol, (a)(ii) would apply. But then that would have to apply equally to all LAR magazines.
 
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