"Laser Beam"
- Thread starter Fozy
- Start date
Now there's 100% honesty folks.
NAA.
Nothing wrong with kewlness........ Well have to have a laser shoot off, me one handed with one eye open under the bench with my gun above my head and you with your Gunner (my favourite gunsmith
) prepped Norstinco Then you and all will be humbled at my awsome kewlness
You can't be serious about your statement it is a joke right?
I have an ATC my carry handgun is a shortened to 4.25" Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull, I load/shoot top velocity/pressure loads from 240r XTP's @ 1675fps to 405gr WLNGC's @ 1330fps.
I installed a Crimson Trace laser grip onto it several years ago and after almost 1000 rounds of top loads and after adjusting it once when I first sighted it in I have never readjusted it and it is dead on everytime even after taking it apart to replace the battery once it was still sighted in perfectly after I put it back together.
They are not a tool to be used to learn to shoot handguns but once you have mastered the basics it is definately a tool that has its advantages and I highly recommend them.
That video was good for a laugh. The guy admits after the ATM scene that his mind was somewhere else, he wasn't paying attention. Mindset, its the first tool in your arsenal. Pick a better time and place to get cash and improve your situational awareness. Most attacks are predictable and preventable. As for the laser. At the ranges demonstrated there is no need for any sighting system. If you can't place shots from retention at those ranges you need a lot more training and practice. The laser looks good, if it works, if its zeroed and if the event occurs in low light. How about a guy in a white or red shirt on a sunny day? Lasers become a crutch and relying on an electronic crutch is a bad idea.
As for shooting from cover. You still have to expose atleast one eye from some portion of cover to make the shot. Again, the laser is good if it works and is zeroed. Lets not forget that lasers point in both directions. Indicating your position is almost as bad as having no cover.
You don't need sights to make hits, its called point shooting/instinct shooting/reflex shooting etc etc. I'm unclear as to why you would keep all your focus on the threat? If its a threat you should be engaging. If its not a threat you shouldn't have drawn your pistol. If it appears the situation is going south and lethal force may be needed then a hand on gun or a "ready gun/covert ready" with your pistol at your side is fine. However, the theat to your life(or others around you) has not presented itself yet so there's no concern regarding your sights. Once the threat is identified you engage with your focus on the sights not the target.
TDC
I, too, thought that lasers were a gimmick, a sighting crutch marketed primarily to the ignorant, until I started working with them. Certainly, they are not a replacement for iron sights, they are an extra back-up. They do not make training any less important. They just increase the odds - the odds that you'll be able to see what you need to see when you need to see it - in your favour.
And there may be situations, developing situations, where a genuine potential threat has been identified but a shoot decision has not been made. Perhaps you have issued a challenge to the armed assailant. Perhaps the assailant's hands are concealed. Perhaps the knife in his hand is still 30 feet away from us. There are situations where our finger must remain off the trigger and our visual focus may need to remain on the threat.
You know, there is more than one video on that site. Videos from very respected trainers, with names everybody knows. These trainers are on that site because they are endorsing the concept. You can't just dismiss it out of hand.
If you want your opinion to remain in any way relevant to we GunNutz, you're going to have to make a better argument than "...If its not a threat you shouldn't have drawn your pistol..."
And there may be situations, developing situations, where a genuine potential threat has been identified but a shoot decision has not been made. Perhaps you have issued a challenge to the armed assailant. Perhaps the assailant's hands are concealed. Perhaps the knife in his hand is still 30 feet away from us. There are situations where our finger must remain off the trigger and our visual focus may need to remain on the threat.
You know, there is more than one video on that site. Videos from very respected trainers, with names everybody knows. These trainers are on that site because they are endorsing the concept. You can't just dismiss it out of hand.
If you want your opinion to remain in any way relevant to we GunNutz, you're going to have to make a better argument than "...If its not a threat you shouldn't have drawn your pistol..."
Crimson Trace is a good brand.
I saw an idiot on the range once with some toy laser sight, I think that's who the other guy was referring to most likely... you know... the kind of laser that has a hex adjustment or something.
Anyone of you in the military with pistol training? Browning 9mm/Hi-P
If you're in a situation where you're supine/on your sides/awkward position, the threat is already close, plus, i've made shots with pistols laying down, sitting, kneeling, standing, from cover left&right from standard sight.
And I totally agree that laser is definitely not a tool to use to learn how to shoot pistol. So many bad habits could be developed.
**I'd get one just for fun if I have the $$ laying around** lol
Personally, I have no need for one at this point, but I support the statement above.
Really, anything that gets people interested in shooting or out shooting more is a positive for the sport.
NAA.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I suppose that for an intimidation factor, they have a use. BUT if that battery goes dead and you haven't practiced with those funny iron things on TOP of the gun, you have a BIG problem.
As mentioned, while the lazer does iluminate your target, your target now knows where YOU are.
One reason its good practice to hold a flashlight at arms length instead of next to the gun.
As mentioned, while the lazer does iluminate your target, your target now knows where YOU are.
One reason its good practice to hold a flashlight at arms length instead of next to the gun.
If a threat presents itself your pistol should be drawn and directed towards the threat. If you have time to issue commands you have time to align your sights. Your pistol should be only low enough to see the threats hands. In the case of personal defense a visible firearm and the belief that the intent is there is enough to trigger rounds. Of course your mileage may vary but I wouldn't play the odds in such a situation. In any case, your pistol should be directed towards the threat at all times. Raising the pistol to engage when necessary requires very little time. A laser can add piece of mind that your sights are close to the target or on target. Again, this is only IF the laser is working, not obscured, and zeroed.
If we back this discussion up to the beginning we can end it right there. Concealed carry is all but non existent in Canada so stop worrying about lasers. Very few on this site have a firearm let alone a pistol readily available should there be a bump in the night so stop worrying about lasers. Very few on this sight have the skills to put the laser(and firearm) to good use so stop worrying about lasers. Very few on this site have the proper mindset to take a life so stop worrying about lasers. The OP had it right, he wants a laser for the cool factor.
I suppose that for an intimidation factor, they have a use. BUT if that battery goes dead and you haven't practiced with those funny iron things on TOP of the gun, you have a BIG problem.
As mentioned, while the lazer does iluminate your target, your target now knows where YOU are.
One reason its good practice to hold a flashlight at arms length instead of next to the gun.
Lasers are like the racking of a shotgun, nothing more than hollywood crap. Neither are intimidating and intimidation should not be your desired result. If you retrieve a firearm and point it at someone you should have full intentions of using it.
I fully agree that battery issues and lack of training are major concerns. Sadly most who purchase a laser will use it as a crutch and not master the iron sights. I disagree with your statement regarding white lights. If you use your light properly you should be able to fire first. More importantly once you illuminate an area you should be moving to avoid wearing bullets and flank your adversary if possible.
TDC
I can definately speak from experience in saying I don't agree with that. I have personally seen how the presence and distinctive sound a shotgun makes when racked has literally......hmmmmm how to put this diplomatically....... loosened bowels! I have seen people prone out on command int he middle of a mud puddle! I have also seen how a number of laser dots on an individual helps with their cooperation level......when they look down and see them the look on the face is priceless!
Otherwise I Agree with what your saying. A laser is nothing to be relied on and does not replace good habits......I lovemy Glock, and I have great night sights!
But you got to admit!
Lasers
They are cool!
I have both the Lasermax (Glock 22) and Crimson Trace (Kimber Pro Covert II). IMO, I'd go with the Crimson Trace. Although the Lasermax integrates well, I find the switch mechanism is easily damaged when field-stripping.......you have to be careful. The plastic end piece where the contact rod protrudes can become distorted, holding the contact rod inside. In addition, its a bit harder to switch on when you need it. The Crimson Trace has an on/off switch, so if its not switched on, the grip switch won't work - so you have to remember that. I also find that if your trigger finger is pointed forward against the slide, I will block the laser - it might actually encourage poor trigger finger control/placement. Otherwise, when you need it, its there on/off as you squeeze/release the grip. I could see an inexperienced shooter experiencing an accidental discharge while trying to activate the laser, so be careful.
For both, aiming no longer requires lining up the sights........you just point the laser to target and shoot. They're pretty neat - you have to have at least one!
For both, aiming no longer requires lining up the sights........you just point the laser to target and shoot. They're pretty neat - you have to have at least one!
I won't dispute your experiences but I will say this. Racking the shotgun and the visible laser do not work 100% of the time on 100% of the threats. That amounts to an unreliable tool for the job. More importantly, if your shotgun wasn't chambered to begin with you're wrong. If you don't intend to use the firearm, don't brandish it.
And lasers aren't cool.... In my opinion.
TDC
