Laser in IPSC Open Division

ss1980 said:
Is laser sight (not the reflective red dot sight, the real laser pointer sight) allowed in IPSC Open division?
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to be clear: no rule prevents you from using a laser in open class

as per all else, why ask or care for opinions of others? sounds like this is something you would like to do/try and since no rules specifically denies you this - just do it and see if it works for you
 
madcow said:
There is a reason why they don't use lasers in competition, or they would have been used already.

It's because they are slow, and as i said before if you focus on your target you will be slow too. Ask any top competitor
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In Open division (with red dot sight) you always focus on the target. In a number of circumstances with iron sights you can use a target focus too.
 
pauls said:
For starters, the laser might reflect off a shiny surface and hit a spectator in the chest, but not any ordinary spectator, one who just finished watching a SWAT movie marathon weekend.
Seeing that laser on his chest, his mind starts racing and instinctively yells "SNIPER" and hits he deck.
In doing so, he smacks his head on a stage prop and is now bleeding all over the range.
Rushing over to help the guy, another spectator slips on the blood and hits his head...domino effect, soon everyone has a bleeding head.

You want that on your conscious?
Just because you wanted to be cool and attach a high speed low drag laser to your gun?

Happy new year!
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Totally plausible :p

Happy New Year !!
 
PapaHotel01 said:
In Open division (with red dot sight) you always focus on the target. In a number of circumstances with iron sights you can use a target focus too.
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That's what I said earlier, you focus on the target and let the dot come into the peripheral vision. Same with iron sights.

With a laser you might have a tendency to focus on the dot not the target, but I can be wrong.

There are other problems using a lase vs dot vs irons, biggest thing is light and weather conditions. I have shot many matches in sunny days and rainy days, both which may make the laser less effective. I don't know how many dots I have modified to increase brightness in the years, as max settings were not enough sometimes.
 
To keep this conversation going in an informative manner;
Let's discuss how/why a red-dot addresses the shortcomings of a laser.

Surely most people would agree that a red-dot scope is faster than irons.

So why does a red-dot succeed where the laser fails?
 
I already tried with the laser. Since in winter most of the shooting is done indoors, the laser is clearly visible. I am asking about IPSC rules because I don't want to be disqualified from the match for using the equipment that's prohibited by the rules. On the range, it is super fast. You can pretty much shoot from the him. Just point and shoot. No need to align sights and all that other gibberish.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
To keep this conversation going in an informative manner;
Let's discuss how/why a red-dot addresses the shortcomings of a laser.

Surely most people would agree that a red-dot scope is faster than irons.

So why does a red-dot succeed where the laser fails?
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Well for starters, a red dot shut doesn't care how reflective a target is. Or non reflective. A red dot works just fine on a wet shiny target as well as a flat black target. A laser, not so much.

Also, a red dot has a fixed moa size at any range. A 3 moa red dot at 10 yards will appear on the target as a 1/4 inch dot, while at a hundred yards it will look 3 inches wide. The size never changes in reference to what the shooter sees. A laser, not so much.

A red dot has the same perceived intensity at any range. It looks just as bright to the shooter at 5 feet as it does at 50 feet (or 50 miles for that matter). A laser, not so much.
 
kodiakjack said:
Well for starters, a red dot shut doesn't care how reflective a target is. Or non reflective. A red dot works just fine on a wet shiny target as well as a flat black target. A laser, not so much.

Also, a red dot has a fixed moa size at any range. A 3 moa red dot at 10 yards will appear on the target as a 1/4 inch dot, while at a hundred yards it will look 3 inches wide. The size never changes in reference to what the shooter sees. A laser, not so much.

A red dot has the same perceived intensity at any range. It looks just as bright to the shooter at 5 feet as it does at 50 feet (or 50 miles for that matter). A laser, not so much.
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also if mounted on the frame, red dot will have less movement, and not need to be see forward of the muzzle where debris is coming out of a comp (since it would be open class)
 
These are very good and informative points, Jack.

kodiakjack said:
Well for starters, a red dot shut doesn't care how reflective a target is. Or non reflective. A red dot works just fine on a wet shiny target as well as a flat black target. A laser, not so much.

Also, a red dot has a fixed moa size at any range. A 3 moa red dot at 10 yards will appear on the target as a 1/4 inch dot, while at a hundred yards it will look 3 inches wide. The size never changes in reference to what the shooter sees. A laser, not so much.

A red dot has the same perceived intensity at any range. It looks just as bright to the shooter at 5 feet as it does at 50 feet (or 50 miles for that matter). A laser, not so much.
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ss1980 said:
I already tried with the laser. Since in winter most of the shooting is done indoors, the laser is clearly visible. I am asking about IPSC rules because I don't want to be disqualified from the match for using the equipment that's prohibited by the rules. On the range, it is super fast. You can pretty much shoot from the him. Just point and shoot. No need to align sights and all that other gibberish.
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Definitely legal in open division, again I'll reiterate take a timer out and prove that it's faster. Timers don't care what FEELS supper fast they will tell you.
 
Also to go a bit further if your just practicing a draw then yes it might be just as quick, where I think it's going to fall short is on transitions and setting up into position. Most should realize transitions and setting up into position is where most time can get eaten up.
 
All the good points. I'll take it to a match to see how it performs during transition from target to target.

red magnum said:
Also to go a bit further if your just practicing a draw then yes it might be just as quick, where I think it's going to fall short is on transitions and setting up into position. Most should realize transitions and setting up into position is where most time can get eaten up.
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ss1980 said:
All the good points. I'll take it to a match to see how it performs during transition from target to target.
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Please get back to us with your results.

I am betting they will mimic the results of others over the years since lasers were first developed. There are very good reasons why nobody but NOBODY uses them in competition. Why play with a disadvantage?
 
I try different things and develop my opinion on things though the hands-on approach. I tried it at the range on one target at a time. Didn't try transitioning from one target to another. Will take it to an IPSC practice -- will see what transpires. Too bad my GoPro hasn't arrived yet -- I could have posted a video here as well me fumbling with it or doing the super hero stuff (one or the other) :)

stormbringer said:
Please get back to us with your results.

I am betting they will mimic the results of others over the years since lasers were first developed. There are very good reasons why nobody but NOBODY uses them in competition. Why play with a disadvantage?
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ss1980 said:
I try different things and develop my opinion on things though the hands-on approach. I tried it at the range on one target at a time. Didn't try transitioning from one target to another. Will take it to an IPSC practice -- will see what transpires. Too bad my GoPro hasn't arrived yet -- I could have posted a video here as well me fumbling with it or doing the super hero stuff (one or the other) :)
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Guess we won't be hearing any time soon, he just turned pink.
 
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red magnum said:
Definitely legal in open division, again I'll reiterate take a timer out and prove that it's faster. Timers don't care what FEELS supper fast they will tell you.
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This would be my take on the situation as well.....testing it prior a match would be your best option...
 
How about using both red dot and a laser? Any rule about that? Might be best of both worlds and worth a try for s##ts and giggles.
 
I was tempted to try that for some circumstances. Last Manitoba Nationals had lots of targets that were set low behind a high wall or port and was sometimes difficult to get the sights between your eyes and the target. I don't think it's workable as a primary sight for IPSC but might be ok as a supplementary sight....hasn't been a big enough deal to bother spending the money on.
 
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