Lathe size

Grizzly and almost all the other Chinese lathes are made by Shaoxing. They're sold under all kinds of different brand names - once you recognize the castings etc you see them everywhere. They lack that smoothness in the controls etc. that comes from careful fitting, but they have hardened and ground ways which a lot of the old lathes did not. When I got mine for all of $300 it has been neglected in a shop that was closing. I ordered new Timkins and prepared to pull the headstock bearings. It turned out those high precision Chinese bearings really were high-precision, there was NO wander in that spindle that I could detect. So back the Timkins went to the supplier. 2.25" through the headstock is hard to beat in a 12 x 48 lathe, and with a gap in the bed if you ever wanted it. The stand was a cheap ass thing with a tray made from 18 gauge. LOL I had one bent up in 3/16" plate and powder coated it. Beefed up the bases too. If you want to do your own barrels etc. you want as short a headstock as you can get with an outboard spider preferably. 5C colts are nice to have, but I don't. DRO's and coolant pumps are things you can add if a lathe doesn't come with them.

There are some really neat and capable older lathes that can still be found in good shape, but most are in the hands of old guys who bought them many moons ago and you'd need to network and advertise to find them. www.lathes.co.uk has a ton of info, and on just about every maker out there.
 
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There is a book out there in which a chap does a really good job of threading and chambering rifle barrels using one of the combination machines. He understands the machine and works with it.
I'm sure I would rather have one than nothing at all.

Older manual machines are not used a lot in industrial settings any more. Larger machines are intimidating to home users - moving the suckers can be interesting. My 16" SB had an 8' bed, cast iron pedestals, etc. It was heavy. Had to be moved down a flight of stairs. Even with professionals doing it, it was a bit scary. Not something to attempt with a couple of friends and a case of beer.
My SM is 7 ' long; the bucket of the loader that delivered it was 8", my shop door is 9'. Worked out just fine. Waltzed it around the concrete floor using pipe rollers. Remarkably easy.
Sometimes larger machines are less expensive than smaller ones, because moving them can be a challenge. Use professionals. They have the equipment and experience.

While I was still on the tools, Millwright, I moved a lot of lathes, milling machines and later CNC machines at the glass container factory I worked at.

It always amazed me how much such heavy frames could bend and come back to where they needed to be true, if they were set up properly.

I also had to move the huge glass blowing machines, which were every bit as sensetive and several times the mass in their cast steel frames. Again, they could and did come back to true when properly set up.

That doesn't mean a lathe or any other large machine base which has been cast from iron or steel can't be bent or set up so that it won't run true.

That's where professionals come in handy.

Many Machinists are easily capable of moving their machines and setting them up properly so don't take this as a diss. Sadly, many don't have a clue where to start and the same goes for laborers pressed into the project.

Be careful when moving and setting up your lathes is very good advice. Try to set them up on SOLID CONCRETE floors and on proper benches, preferrably made specifically for the particular lathe/milling machine if it's one of he larger units.

I've seen large lathes set up on heavy wooden decks in some sawmills but even when mounted on 12cm thick planks, you can feel the floor vibrate when the machines were started.

Level, across ends, centers, along the ways for the full length is imperative IMHO and that takes a very expensive and precice level to accomplish.

Small table top type lathes can be set up to be true with a bit of common sense and care. If your table isn't stable, your lathe won't be stable or run true.

My machines are both manual, I had the opportunity to take a similar sized early model CNC machine home with me when the plant closed but space was at a premium in my shop. I did manage to grab a bunch of tooling from it before it went to the scrap metal dealer. I would have taken the motor but it was 3 phase.

The lathe itself is expensive, good tooling, such as tool posts with removable tool holders or four sided Turret types aren't cheap. Then factor in the cost of decent sets of inside and outside micrometers up to 12cm. You can likely get by with smaller units but the complete sets are only a few dollars more expensive. Another good investment if you can afford it is a solid height micrometer and and depth micrometer. Then of course you need a run out dial indicator for setting up your bore for true in the chuck and in the spindle spider at the rear.

Don't foget proper cutting tool holders and the cutter heads that fit on them, and keep a supply of different size tool bits that can be ground for the shape of your threads. By the time all of this comes together, where you aren't mucking around for lack of proper tooling, the cost will come close to the price of the lathe.

Oh, lest I forget, it's always handy to have a faceplate with centre and a good dogleg for turning between centers to make cutting tapers on a barrel blank easier. Then of course steady rests, full and half.

If the lathe you're looking at doesn't come with a good supply of this equipment/tooling, you won't be able to get as much out of it as you should be able to

That doesn't mean you shouldn't purchase the lathe if it doesn't have all of these accessories. Just be aware of the added costs of purchasing reliably repeatable, quality tools needed to do a lot of the work you may need for the projects you intend to do.

Many factories and even some shops buy bare machines because they have lots of the accessories on hand or because the machine will be used for one or two specific types of jobs and just don't want the clutter of the accessories.

I saw a machine a few weeks ago, that only came with a six jaw chuck and a rocking type tool post. The owner didn't need or want anything else to gather dust and sold off all of the accessories.
 
I lucked out and got a 12x36 with a bit over 1.5" spindle bore for dirt cheap, and it seems to be a good size hobby lathe. Lots of gunsmithing work is possible on it, and it's an older one that's fairly heavy. 2.5hp 3 phase motor, easy to run with a cheap VFD on regular 220 single phase.
Kristian
 
had a lathe in my workshop for many years, at work have a Nardini sold by Acklands, it came with all accessories at the time, that was 30 plus years ago and still works great but its been looked after, its a 14-40, at home have a old Toss 16-72, 3 phase its a heavy beast but it gets used for lots of repair and hobby, just finished a cylinder off the tilt on a Deer 644, at the lake I have a Emco 8-30 with milling head, its small, light and not a great machine but at the lake its a life saver, made plumbing fittings, parts for the boat, last summer made new bushings for the Kawasaki Mule, unlike the Toss that will easily take 1/4 cuts the Emco is very capable just takes a bit longer, if I was to upgrade I would easily take the same size machine but would want the quick change gear box, if you have ever played with change gears you know what I mean, milling head is limited as it uses the cross slide for a table but does the job at the lake.

with any lathe ne will spend as much on tooling as on the lathe, picked up lots of tooling from farm auctions, check with local shops, we have a couple home machinists drop by asking if we have any tool steel in the trash, old milling cutters work great for ground threading tools, just take a piece of flat bar, drill a hole thro the size of cutter and add a clamp screw, the thing using round tool steel making a holder is just a drilled hole instead of the square hole required with tool steel blanks
 
" but would want the quick change gear box, if you have ever played with change gears you know what I mean"

My first lathe was a Chinese 13 x 40 which was OK ( I did a lot of work on it) but it was only about 800 lbs, 2hp and had no quick change gear box. I could cut threads on it but to do so, I had to open the end cover and change 3 gears (with 3 different wrenches), then to get power feeds back had to do the same change in reverse. I found this rather annoying (not to mention time consuming). My current lathe is a 16 X 40 Nardini, 6.25 hp, 2500 lbs C/W quick change gear box W/ 56 different threads available with no gear changes. A much more capable machine and nicer to use, but of course its 3 phase which required a rotary phase converter.
 
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" but would want the quick change gear box, if you have ever played with change gears you know what I mean"

My first lathe was a Chinese 13 x 40 which was OK ( I did a lot of work on it) but it was only about 800 lbs, 2hp and had no quick change gear box. I could cut threads on it but to do so, I had to open the end cover and change 3 gears (with 3 different wrenches), then to get power feeds back had to do the same change in reverse. I found this rather annoying (not to mention time consuming). My current lathe is a 16 X 40 Nardini, 6.25 hp, 2500 lbs C/W quick change gear box W/ 56 different threads available with no gear changes. A much more capable machine and nicer to use, but of course its 3 phase which required a rotary phase converter.

I have one of each.

I like the quick change gear box but I can get better metric threads cut with the change gear machine, which also has a longer bed.

Both of them have 14 inch swings and run 220V single phase 2.5HP motors.

There are times when I would like more horsepower, especially when turning down Green Mountain barrel blanks, which seem to harden as they're being worked.
 
I have had gearbox as well as quick change equipped lathes. The gearbox lathes offer opportunities that the gearbox ones don't, esp., if you have the extra gears to do Metric or Inch (whichever is not 'native' to your lathe) at the price of a few minutes dicking about and getting dirty hands. It's not onerous. In the scheme of things, it's three or four minutes, out of way more than that, in getting set up. A tip. Cut some note paper into strips. When assembling the gears, pinch a strip of paper between each gear set's teeth. This sets the backlash almost perfectly, without any fiddling about back and forth. Remove the strips and go, once done setting up.

My 7 inch swing Myford, and my 13x40 Colchester, have a top speed of right around 2500 rpm, and a bottom speed of right around 30 rpm. That is a pretty good set of ends for speed range. 30 rpm is a pretty decent speed to turn, when cutting threads, while anything 1800 rpm on up will serve really well for stuff like polishing screw heads and turning small pins and the like.
 
I have had gearbox as well as quick change equipped lathes. The gearbox lathes offer opportunities that the gearbox ones don't, esp., if you have the extra gears to do Metric or Inch (whichever is not 'native' to your lathe) at the price of a few minutes dicking about and getting dirty hands. It's not onerous. In the scheme of things, it's three or four minutes, out of way more than that, in getting set up. A tip. Cut some note paper into strips. When assembling the gears, pinch a strip of paper between each gear set's teeth. This sets the backlash almost perfectly, without any fiddling about back and forth. Remove the strips and go, once done setting up.

My 7 inch swing Myford, and my 13x40 Colchester, have a top speed of right around 2500 rpm, and a bottom speed of right around 30 rpm. That is a pretty good set of ends for speed range. 30 rpm is a pretty decent speed to turn, when cutting threads, while anything 1800 rpm on up will serve really well for stuff like polishing screw heads and turning small pins and the like.

Yup, neither of my lathes will turn that slow, unless I add some electronics to slow the motor speed.

The quick change Grizzly will slow down to appx 65 rpms but the other/longer unit will only slow down to appx 50 rpms which is almost to fast but works ok when turning smaller threads on revolver barrels and diameters under an inch, as long as I leave a relief cut to disengage the auto feed.

I have made up a mount for another drive motor, which is attached to a V belt pully I mounted on the back of the four jaw chuck on the Grizzly. The motor is actually a geared unit made up for a large rotisserie system on commercial BBQ ovens. It will run my Grizzly very easily in this manner at appx 30 rpm and it cuts very nice threads at this speed.

It actually takes about 20+ minutes for me to change over the gears on the drive of my lathe. I use the opportunity to check out wear on gear teeth engagement surfaces and check for bearing play, lubricate, etc.

trevj, you have much more experience than I have, as I'm pretty much an amateur with just enough knowledge to get myself into trouble. Still, I manage to muddle my way through and I've picked up a bit as I go.

I wish my lathes had taper cutting attachments. I really hate it when I forget I've offset the tailstock for a taper.

Usually it gets rezeroed to the chuck center when I replace it on the spindle after taking it off to attack the face plate and center, so I can turn the barrel with a dog leg between the tailstock and spindle centers.

Changing over to a faceplate/spindle is much more of a pain in the butt than changing out drive gears IMHO. Thankfully it's not something I have to do very often these days. It was the main reason I ended up with two lathes, so that I could leave one lathe set up for turning barrel tapers and cutting threads if they were metric.

I use the quick change Grizzly for most other things but I don't like the tool post on it as much as the quick change blocks on the other lathe.
 
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taper turning attachment is a luxury but for most jobs its limited to the length it will cut, in 40 years of lathe work I can turn tapers by hand, do Morse tapers a couple times a week.

it takes practice but rough the taper then with a known change in diameter set with cross slide and length, both the Toss and Nardini have DROs reverse the feed to cut away from the chuck feed the cross slide smoothly as the feed feeds.

this works great to chamfer but use the handwheel just cut away from the chuck or downhill, cutting towards the chuck you are winding the cross slide out, never ends up good
 
Meh. I still have a bunch to learn! A fella that stops learning, is pretty close to dead, anyways! :) Keep in mind, that there are a whole lot of 'right' ways to do any job in a machine shop, and that guys telling you what worked for them, are simply relating their experiences. Anything that results in a good part, within tolerances, is good! Well, Safe counts too!

I have wrecked and broken my fair share of parts and tools, all part of the learning curve. I count myself lucky, that they were still teaching some of this stuff when I was in High School.

One trick I have seen for taper turning, is to grab a cheap import Boring Head, with a Morse Taper mount, and place that in the tail stock. Use the boring head to adjust the amount you want the taper to be. A pre-fabricated solution, to an older dodge where you build an offsetting tails stock center.

Either make some dead centers that fit the tool holes in the boring head, or solder a ball bearing, on the end of a rod, to use as a ball ended center.

A Taper attachment is nice to have, as is a DRO. But at the end of the day, what you actually have on your bench, is better than a picture in a catalog of the 'mostest perfectest lathe ever'. Gotta learn to make the tools you have, work for you! Not to say that you cannot keep an eye peeled for an upgrade, just, that you will miss out on a lot, if you wait until the 'perfect' lathe comes along!
 
I had a Grizzly lathe. I did a couple of barrels before the bearings crapped out. The bearings are from the front end of a truck and there are no others available in that size, I did the route of trying to replace them with higher quality. Sold the Grizzly, cheap, and bought a new lathe from Legere in Ottawa. Made in Taiwan they have sold a lot of these, 16x40 I think, 2" hole in the spindle. Never big enough. I have had it for about 11 years and I think it is just broken in with what I do with it.. It is a production lathe meant to run all day, every day, for many many years.
 
Meh. I still have a bunch to learn! A fella that stops learning, is pretty close to dead, anyways! :) Keep in mind, that there are a whole lot of 'right' ways to do any job in a machine shop, and that guys telling you what worked for them, are simply relating their experiences. Anything that results in a good part, within tolerances, is good! Well, Safe counts too!

I have wrecked and broken my fair share of parts and tools, all part of the learning curve. I count myself lucky, that they were still teaching some of this stuff when I was in High School.

One trick I have seen for taper turning, is to grab a cheap import Boring Head, with a Morse Taper mount, and place that in the tail stock. Use the boring head to adjust the amount you want the taper to be. A pre-fabricated solution, to an older dodge where you build an offsetting tails stock center.

Either make some dead centers that fit the tool holes in the boring head, or solder a ball bearing, on the end of a rod, to use as a ball ended center.

A Taper attachment is nice to have, as is a DRO. But at the end of the day, what you actually have on your bench, is better than a picture in a catalog of the 'mostest perfectest lathe ever'. Gotta learn to make the tools you have, work for you! Not to say that you cannot keep an eye peeled for an upgrade, just, that you will miss out on a lot, if you wait until the 'perfect' lathe comes along!

I make up my own tools, holders, on a regular basis. Just getting lazy in my rusty years.

Turning from a center with a dog leg driven by the face plate and offsetting the tail stock work well for me. My long bed lathe is a 14x42 Taiwanese knock off of a British model, with Back Gears. It's heavy, well made and because it's been well maintained, still looks very good after 16 years of use for all sorts of things from tractor/truck/conveyor, motor mounts, special thread bolts and screws to all sorts of gunsmithing projects.

The biggest issue I've had with it was a leaking bearing seal on the gear box.

It would be nice if it would turn a bit slower and I've considered having a VFD unit installed on my motor, butttttttt procrastination keeps rearing its ugly head.

I have an old Black Star barrel that gets harder as it gets worked. It can be very tricky to run chambering reamers into at the speeds I'm limited to. Still, it runs very true as long as I do my part and take care.

As for threading, practice and more practice is the way to learn.

I was lucky and managed to get a half dozen lengths of 1.5 inch round 4150 steel in ten foot lengths.

There were several other sizes of the same steel, which we used for high abuse shafting in some areas.

I'm down to 1 inch and larger diameter left on the racks. At todays's prices on steel, I don't want to purchase any more.

The last piece of 1 inch, is appx 4 feet long and I use it exclusively for muzzle brakes.
 
I make up my own tools, holders, on a regular basis. Just getting lazy in my rusty years.

Turning from a center with a dog leg driven by the face plate and offsetting the tail stock work well for me. My long bed lathe is a 14x42 Taiwanese knock off of a British model, with Back Gears. It's heavy, well made and because it's been well maintained, still looks very good after 16 years of use for all sorts of things from tractor/truck/conveyor, motor mounts, special thread bolts and screws to all sorts of gunsmithing projects.

The biggest issue I've had with it was a leaking bearing seal on the gear box.

It would be nice if it would turn a bit slower and I've considered having a VFD unit installed on my motor, butttttttt procrastination keeps rearing its ugly head.

I have an old Black Star barrel that gets harder as it gets worked. It can be very tricky to run chambering reamers into at the speeds I'm limited to. Still, it runs very true as long as I do my part and take care.

As for threading, practice and more practice is the way to learn.

I was lucky and managed to get a half dozen lengths of 1.5 inch round 4150 steel in ten foot lengths.

There were several other sizes of the same steel, which we used for high abuse shafting in some areas.

I'm down to 1 inch and larger diameter left on the racks. At todays's prices on steel, I don't want to purchase any more.

The last piece of 1 inch, is appx 4 feet long and I use it exclusively for muzzle brakes.

Yeah, you make a very good case for making the best of what you have, rather than making excuses for what you have.

The general rule, is that the operator, must be at least ten percent smarter than the machine he is running, in order for things to work out to the good!
 
Yeah, you make a very good case for making the best of what you have, rather than making excuses for what you have.

The general rule, is that the operator, must be at least ten percent smarter than the machine he is running, in order for things to work out to the good!

I've seen a couple of machinists that can do absolute wonders with old machines and these Chinese knock offs. I'm not that talented but get by on most things, because I have patience and enough stock on hand that I can try out what I have in mind before actually trying to learn on the project at hand.

I hoarded every bit of scrap round, square, hex stock and heavy sidewall tubing I could get my hands on back in the day, which was, for me, a consideralble amount. I had to rent a heavy trailer to pack it all home when the factory I worked at shut down in 2008 and I stayed on to strip the building to its shell, for resale. Some of the stuff I had to cut up and throw away caused me a fair bit of angst.

Oh well, it will be a great and interesting learning curve right into my last days.

I really appreciate many of the comments made by knowledgeable people on how they overcome their issues. Some I would never attempt, but some are brilliant.
 
bearhunter, is it possible to put a smaller pulley on the motor to reduce the spindle speed?

Of course it is, but in real practice, it isn't practical or any easier than the method I'm using now. When it comes to lathes, there's usually a good reason for the components being what they are.

That's one reason I haven't had a VFD installed.

Changing out pullys would definitely work though.
 
An old South bend heavy 10 will do most of what you need to do. But there old and collectable...and lost are starting to show there age..

They sure are at that! A good one is a good machine, though!

They also suffer a lot from what can be termed the "Old American Iron" mafia, of sorts, online, where a lot of the guys in the US NorthEast, where there were a LOT of used tools to pick and choose from, made sure that anyone that didn't get a South Bend or similar, was either stupid or a loser for not doing so, despite that all the rest didn't have access to the great selection of near mint equipment they did. It did a lot of harm, as South Bend Lathes got built up like owning one was the path to machining godhood, and a lot of guys bought junk for way too much money.

South Bend was especially at the center of the "Cool" brands to have. Note that despite the Brand being still alive (owned by the owner of Grizzly Tools), they have nothing to do with the original South Bend other than the logo that they bought. To his credit, he has made an effort to support some of the older models from the original SBL Co.

Here in Canada, being part of the Commonwealth, we got at least as much of our machine tools from the UK as from the US, with very supportive tariff rates on import, so a lot of the info found on the lathes.co.uk website comes in pretty handy, when shopping.

In very real terms, condition trumps Brand name, and included tooling an accessories can change the entire cost:value ratio too! Best advice I can offer to anyone interested, is stay interested, keep watching, do your homework, so you know when a good deal pops up, that it IS a good deal, and something will eventually show up. And, don't be afraid to work with what is available, and upgrade along the way.
 
Yes, Canadian made. Perhaps the most common is the 11" Utilathe. Often used in school shops, and sold off when schools abandoned practical education. Mine is a 1340, 13"" swing, 40 inch centers. Years go I saw a really nice 16".
 
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