On my RCBS I just cam over and your are done. Adjust the die until you see faint vertical marks on the case neck, then back off until the marks are gone. Easy. Just measure your case neck ID to make sure you don't have any of your "out of spec" brass that did not get sized enough. If you find one, adjust the die a bit more until you no longer get any "out of spec" necks. Marty you should do a test since you have the same dies. Make a batch of 10 exact same loads, except have 5 not neck turned. Do a run out comparison, and target comparison at 300.
Lee Collet Neck Dies
- Thread starter Longboat
- Start date
It is currently too late for that, as I just neck turned my last Lapua brass casings.
A year and a half ago I purchased 300, which we're neck turned at the start and took 4 firings before I neck turn them again, they are now 7F
Now got another 300 in December, which are 0F except for 20-30 when I was making accuracy tests, and all have been neck turned.
I feel like I already bought too much 308 brass right now, so won't get any more for a while to do these tests.
I use Lee collet dies for neck sizing, Forster neck bushing shoulder bump and Redding competition neck sizing dies during the various stages of the life cycle of my brass. I have never annealed. Brass lasts from 18 to 25 reloads before I crush and toss it due primarily to primer pocket loosening. As the brass hardens, I drop the neck bushing down 1 thou to keep the neck tension consistent over the lifetime of the brass.
The Lee neck crimp die works well all the time. If I find lines on the neck, I rotate the brass in the shell holder an eighth of a turn and give it another stroke. I always use the Lee neck crimp on new brass and up to three firings until it has been fully fireformed. At this point the brass gets resized with the Redding competition full length die which does NOT neck size and is set to give a 1 to 1.5 thou shoulder bump. The case is then trimmed to length. Once trimmed, I turn neck thickness to to around 13.5 thou for the 6.5CM and 308 brass, 12.5 to 13 thou for the 300WM, and 12 thou for the .223. The reason for the slightly thinner 300WM is that the PPU brass I use generally comes in at 13.0-13.5 thou new.
Once neck trimmed, I almost always go to neck bump with the Forster neck bushing die for 3 reloads, then a run through the Redding full length die followed by the Redding competition neck bushing die, then 3 more firings with the Forster neck bushing die . . .
Around 12-16 reloads, depending on the caliber (300WM earliest, .223 last), I usually drop the neck bushings down 0.001" in size to overcome springback from brass hardening. Since I only fire from one specific bolt gun for each caliber, I never seem to have to trim to length more than the one time.
Annealing seems to be an expensive unnecessary procedure to me, but that is just my opinion. Now, if someone wants to lend me their MkII AMP machine for the next 15 or 20 years, I might give it a try. I'll definitely let you know if it simplifies things or makes more accurate ammo.
The Lee neck crimp die works well all the time. If I find lines on the neck, I rotate the brass in the shell holder an eighth of a turn and give it another stroke. I always use the Lee neck crimp on new brass and up to three firings until it has been fully fireformed. At this point the brass gets resized with the Redding competition full length die which does NOT neck size and is set to give a 1 to 1.5 thou shoulder bump. The case is then trimmed to length. Once trimmed, I turn neck thickness to to around 13.5 thou for the 6.5CM and 308 brass, 12.5 to 13 thou for the 300WM, and 12 thou for the .223. The reason for the slightly thinner 300WM is that the PPU brass I use generally comes in at 13.0-13.5 thou new.
Once neck trimmed, I almost always go to neck bump with the Forster neck bushing die for 3 reloads, then a run through the Redding full length die followed by the Redding competition neck bushing die, then 3 more firings with the Forster neck bushing die . . .
Around 12-16 reloads, depending on the caliber (300WM earliest, .223 last), I usually drop the neck bushings down 0.001" in size to overcome springback from brass hardening. Since I only fire from one specific bolt gun for each caliber, I never seem to have to trim to length more than the one time.
Annealing seems to be an expensive unnecessary procedure to me, but that is just my opinion. Now, if someone wants to lend me their MkII AMP machine for the next 15 or 20 years, I might give it a try. I'll definitely let you know if it simplifies things or makes more accurate ammo.
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For me annealing is easy and the brass comes soft new, why not keep it that way. Rick357, it looks like you have a good system working for you, however you adjust the bushing die for spring back correction to set your case mouth ID, but I would think that because your brass is harder than it used to be, that the amount of bullet grip must change as you shoot the brass several times throughout it's lifespan, regardless of the ID. Maybe the difference is small. If I keep everything the same including annealing each time, then I have no variables to deal with.
Fastestmanalive
Regular
- Location
- Quebec City
I used the body die/lee collet combo for all my rifles untils recently. Switch over to the Forster neck bushing bump die when I started turning my necks. If you don’t turn the combo is the best way to have a low run out and consistent tension. I however had some bad experiences with freshly annealed brass when the Lee die was doing deep marks to the neck. A little bit of imperial wax or Hornady one shot lube fixed the issue.
The body die is a must if you ask me when you use the Lee Collet Die.
The body die is a must if you ask me when you use the Lee Collet Die.
Thanks I look forward to comparing the 2 methods. I too have found you need a little bit of lube to avoid the collet die gouging the brass on the neck. I use that spray bottle RCBS stuff for that. I see some guys polish the sharp edges as well to avoid this.
My experience with Lee collet die has been nothing short of amazing.
Cheap, easy to use, 50% of my ammo is absolutely zero runout (on a Lee press not even a Forster press), while the other 50% never gets to 2 thou runout.
I resize my body every firing.
If not, there is not that same consistency between firings.
When having body sized everytime, the case always has the same volume, and always the same velocity.
This is a 10 shot group target, done with the Lee collet die, and body sized with Redding body die.
My vertical is very minimal, while my horizontal, everyone on the line was getting pushed left and right with the gusts of Connaught.
Me Too. My favourite reloading brand overall!
My favourite reloading brands are Forster for rifle and Dillon for pistol,
Lee is mostly ok in mosts situations, where shooting casual calibers and want to do it cheap but ok.
At that price though, their collet neck sizing die is an amazing bargain.
You can even change the neck tension if you want by polishing mandrel (which I have not done).
As for marks, I never got any.
When I body size, I lube my brass, even if I wipe it afterwards, theres is still barely enough on the neck to prevent marking.
And when I neck size, I do it twice. Neck size, bring casing back down slightly, 1/4 turn, neck size again.
Works out any minor imperfection your first pass could of done.
Turning my necks to 13 thou also helped a lot for this.
Lee is mostly ok in mosts situations, where shooting casual calibers and want to do it cheap but ok.
At that price though, their collet neck sizing die is an amazing bargain.
You can even change the neck tension if you want by polishing mandrel (which I have not done).
As for marks, I never got any.
When I body size, I lube my brass, even if I wipe it afterwards, theres is still barely enough on the neck to prevent marking.
And when I neck size, I do it twice. Neck size, bring casing back down slightly, 1/4 turn, neck size again.
Works out any minor imperfection your first pass could of done.
Turning my necks to 13 thou also helped a lot for this.
The problem with these speed bumps on the case neck are the gauge movement when measuring case neck runout.
Meaning is the needle movement actual runout or the gauge hitting the compressed raised areas on the neck.
And even if the collet is polished some of the excess neck diameter ends up flowing into the slots of the collet.
Don't take this the wrong way because the Lee collet die will produce less neck runout than a bushing die. I just prefer full length resizing in one operation with a Forster full length die and don't mind lubing the cases.
- Location
- The Kawartha Lakes Region in Ontario
I also took Jerry's advice on the die suggestion, they work very well indeed.
I definitely can see this as possible speed bump for measuring runout. I have an arrow straightening gauge that I use for checking runout, The run out is very little anyway with what I'm doing and I don't even measure it anymore.
Well one thing I have ran into is after 3 firings and neck sizing only with the Lee Collet Die, the brass will not chamber.
I did check the 3× fired brass for chambering after neck sizing and before loading. So no nightmare there at least. No bullets to pull...
But I can see the limitations of neck sizing only. I just ended up using a full length die for now and bumped the shoulders back .002-.003". They chamber fine again.
I have also lost some degree of concentricity after 3 firings. The Lee neck die held around .001-.002" of runout. But after 3 firings some brass is getting up to .003 and nearly .005 at the extreme end. It will be interesting to see how they shoot.
It's definitely time to start looking at alternative methods.
I did check the 3× fired brass for chambering after neck sizing and before loading. So no nightmare there at least. No bullets to pull...
But I can see the limitations of neck sizing only. I just ended up using a full length die for now and bumped the shoulders back .002-.003". They chamber fine again.
I have also lost some degree of concentricity after 3 firings. The Lee neck die held around .001-.002" of runout. But after 3 firings some brass is getting up to .003 and nearly .005 at the extreme end. It will be interesting to see how they shoot.
It's definitely time to start looking at alternative methods.
Brass quality/brand and how hot you're loading may have a bearing. I use the Lee collet on all of my 308 loadings without a hitch. on my 220 Swift I use a FL every fourth loading. I haven't had any accuracy problems with this or much stretch.
hunters home
CGN Regular
I believe that the Redding body die is almost mandotary for long term low run out when using the collet die to size the neck. I have been using this combo for a few years for some of my varmint rifles and it works great. With any neck die that I know of there comes a time that the shoulder need to get bumped back or the run out gets bad.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Now you understand why the Redding Body die is integral in this process... bump the shoulder so that chambering is always consistent.
Next up is outside neck turning and why you never stop touching up the necks... hint: brass flows so neck thickness is always changing.
On the upside, with the Lee collet neck die, the irregular neck thickness is on the outside of the case neck so that helps keep runout at bay longer BUT ongoing and proper neck prep (neck turning, annealing, trimming) is a must.
Jerry
Do you guys neck turn more than 1 time over the life of brass?
Would you eventually go to thin? Or will it flow enough to create the need to neck turn mote than one time over the life of brass.
I've been led to believe neck turning is just done 1 time only...
Would you eventually go to thin? Or will it flow enough to create the need to neck turn mote than one time over the life of brass.
I've been led to believe neck turning is just done 1 time only...
