Legal actions, Go Fund Me etc.

[steamy teabag]

If MS is listed will he have to testify under oath?

Curious to know if money changed hands or any communications between him the CGC, Poly etc when the FRT's were changed.

 

[Pooface83]

Donated!

 

[Taurkon]

Question: The letter says that now derivatives of AR-10s are prohibited. Is the modern sporter a derivative of the AR10, AR102, or is it entirely designed to be it's own receiver that just excepts some AR-15 parts?

The MS is not a variant of modification of either the AR-10 or AR-15. It is a unique design that matches the upper and lower receiver very differently than either of the AR's you mentioned. What the MS has in common with the AR is the same thing many other bolt and semi-autos have, which is much of the hardware that you can bolt on the AR receivers also bolts onto/into the MS. In the original FRT that was issues, this was the comment that was included:


2018/10/4
Canadian Law Comments - the ATRS, Model - Modern Sporter upper receiver does not have a cut for an automatic sear, and has a different system for mounting upper to lower receivers than
either the AR-10 or AR-15 Rifles.
- as received at Specialized Firearms Support Services Section, the Make - Alberta Tactical Rifle, Model - Modern Sporter, serial number ATRS18-MS-000009 contains
the receiver / frame of a semi-automatic firearm. Further, this firearm design is derived from an amalgamation of several different firearm designs and does not trace its
design lineage directly or uniquely to a "prohibited" or a "restricted" firearm found in the Regulations appended to the Criminal Code.

 

[Cameron SS]

The MS is not a variant of modification of either the AR-10 or AR-15. It is a unique design that matches the upper and lower receiver very differently than either of the AR's you mentioned. What the MS has in common with the AR is the same thing many other bolt and semi-autos have, which is much of the hardware that you can bolt on the AR receivers also bolts onto/into the MS. In the original FRT that was issues, this was the comment that was included:


2018/10/4
Canadian Law Comments - the ATRS, Model - Modern Sporter upper receiver does not have a cut for an automatic sear, and has a different system for mounting upper to lower receivers than
either the AR-10 or AR-15 Rifles.
- as received at Specialized Firearms Support Services Section, the Make - Alberta Tactical Rifle, Model - Modern Sporter, serial number ATRS18-MS-000009 contains
the receiver / frame of a semi-automatic firearm. Further, this firearm design is derived from an amalgamation of several different firearm designs and does not trace its
design lineage directly or uniquely to a "prohibited" or a "restricted" firearm found in the Regulations appended to the Criminal Code.

For the love of god stop saying what is or is not a variant. Its a meaningless made up word that has no legal value. You might as well be arguing what deck chairs from the titanic make better flotation devices.

You give credibility to the liberal government propagandists every time you try to argue what is or is not a variant, because by doing so you are legitimizing that there is such thing as a legal variant, and you are legitimizing the premise that some variants should be prohibited and other variants should be something else.

I couldn't care less whether a gun is a variant of a tooth brush or the Chupacabbras or an atomic bomb. There is no legitimate basis for making any legal distinction between any type of firearm. All firearms are dangerous. Thats what makes them useful. You are either reasonable to possess, carry and use firearms, or you are not. If you are good to have firearms, then no further restriction against what you can and can't use is reasonable or tolerable.

 

[Cameron SS]

Question: The letter says that now derivatives of AR-10s are prohibited. Is the modern sporter a derivative of the AR10, AR102, or is it entirely designed to be it's own receiver that just excepts some AR-15 parts?

Only the designer can tell you what it was designed for.

The fact that canadian law defines firearms into classifications based on the mindstate and imagination of manufacturer is simply absurd.

People piss and moan over magazine capacities and supressors but the real evil in the firearms act starts with the very definition of what is a firearm, and that indisiousness is made worse and worse by the definitions of handgun, restricted, prohibited, automatic, and all the other definitions.

Variant and modified version are troublesome terms, but they are way down the list. You could eliminate every reference to variant or modified version in the code and classification regulations and we wouldn't be much further ahead.

 

[GoldPrime]

It seems likely to me (a layman) that the legal challenges and ATRS' case in particular will make necessary the legal definition of a variant with respect to a firearm. As much as Murray Smith would like us to believe that the term is clearly understood among firearms owners, the truth is there is no reasonable, consistent way to determine (based on what the RCMP have already is a variant) based on the particular firearm's characteristics. I see this as a major barrier to coming to a legal decision.

We may finally get a legal definition in the coming months/years, and it seems quite possible to me that we won't be happy with what they decide.

 

[Taurkon]

For the love of god stop saying what is or is not a variant. Its a meaningless made up word that has no legal value. You might as well be arguing what deck chairs from the titanic make better flotation devices.

You give credibility to the liberal government propagandists every time you try to argue what is or is not a variant, because by doing so you are legitimizing that there is such thing as a legal variant, and you are legitimizing the premise that some variants should be prohibited and other variants should be something else.

I couldn't care less whether a gun is a variant of a tooth brush or the Chupacabbras or an atomic bomb. There is no legitimate basis for making any legal distinction between any type of firearm. All firearms are dangerous. Thats what makes them useful. You are either reasonable to possess, carry and use firearms, or you are not. If you are good to have firearms, then no further restriction against what you can and can't use is reasonable or tolerable.

I get your point, and perhaps I should have state "The MS is not a derivative of either the AR-10 or AR-15" or something along those lines, but when I used the word "variant", I was quoting verbatim a statement from last summer that was made by an employee of ATRS to someone who suggested the MS was an AR-15. Yes though, I can see why this is not helpful and understand your response.

 

[Kranger_Rudy]

It seems likely to me (a layman) that the legal challenges and ATRS' case in particular will make necessary the legal definition of a variant with respect to a firearm. As much as Murray Smith would like us to believe that the term is clearly understood among firearms owners, the truth is there is no reasonable, consistent way to determine (based on what the RCMP have already is a variant) based on the particular firearm's characteristics. I see this as a major barrier to coming to a legal decision.

We may finally get a legal definition in the coming months/years, and it seems quite possible to me that we won't be happy with what they decide.

Whether we are happy with it or not, getting them to actually legally define things is a start. No matter how stupid or arbitrary the definitions are, we can at least start working around them and challenging them. Right now they're free to make things up as they go and change their minds on a whim.

 

[HotSoup]

I'm starting to get sick and tired of not just our federal government, but the corrupt institutions such as the RCMP within, despite many rank-and-file officers out there actually trying to actually make a difference it seems that all it takes is some Ottawa-appointed crony looking to make a name for himself to finally erode all the respect I had for the RCMP. I hold individual frontline officers in high regard, but I find myself struggling to maintain any of the respect I may have had for the institution that is the RCMP. I hope this goes well for you Rick, not just for the sake of you and your employees but Canadians as a whole, this isn't just about the firearms community in my opinion this is about our fundamental rights and liberties, not just privacy rights but our right to live free of arbitrary laws and regulations such as the FRT changes. How can we justify shutting down a family-owned business providing skilled jobs as protecting Canadians?

"An unjust law is no law at all" this holds true today just as it held true for Martin Luther King when he spoke out against racial segregation.

I will be contacting my MLA to let her know where I stand on this. I have to say I am extremely disappointed with the glacial pace our provincial government is moving at, this would likely be a non-issue if they had followed in the footsteps of Saskatchewan and appointed our own CFO.

I will be endeavoring to contribute to your cause and the other challenges, I hope whatever paltry funds I can give will be of assistance. The only way we stand a chance is using all available avenues of resistance, including civil court.

Yours Truly,

A fed-up Albertan

Cops arent your friends. The brass are corrupt careerists and the front line guys want to avoid paperwork, but if they have to do paper work and charge you they will happily ruin your life with as many charges as possible. Cops arent your friends. Those who choose to become police officers remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. Sorry.

 

[cdndfs]

Cops arent your friends. The brass are corrupt careerists and the front line guys want to avoid paperwork, but if they have to do paper work and charge you they will happily ruin your life with as many charges as possible. Cops arent your friends. Those who choose to become police officers remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. Sorry.

It's obviously correct that they are not your friends. While I agree the top brass are often corrupt careerists, with Bill Blair being example #1, there are certainly some good men in the leadership ranks, somewhere in this country. I also agree that a cop in the situations we're contemplating, would arrest you, but calling them agents of tyranny and that they chose "remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society" is a bit of a stretch.

I've spent considerable time in countries where the police are corrupt through-and-through, and when I come back to Canada, I am very thankful for the fact that the majority of cops do their jobs well, and mostly with integrity. I'm sure there are douchebag cops here and there (not sure if Murray Smith qualifies as a copy but he certainly qualifies as a douchebag). Believe me, you would know it were this not the case. I've had to pay bribes to police (not in Canada obviously). I have family that have been shot by police for no reason at all, with hardly a reprimand. Canada's police aren't perfect but they are REALLY good compared to most of the world.

Secondly, how could anyone fault a cop for failing to resist tyranny, and in doing so risk their jobs, pensions, family's financial security etc when the average gun owner won't even pony up money to fund lawsuits, their orgs, file an s74, etc?

Police should be reminded that gun owners have long been some of their staunchest allies. With the current hostilities directed at police, they could probably use a few.

 

[cdndfs]

On the issue of variants, has anyone else read the CCFR motion for an injunction? In a deposition, Murray Smith couldn't even come up with a consistent definition of variant himself and it seems like how they interpret varies case to case. It makes my blood boil that this ###### got a fat pension, and on top of it is probably getting rich consulting fees now. He should be in prison.

 

[TopShelf97]

So whats going to happen if an injunction is granted? Can ATRS open back up and start making guns again or..?

 

[ATRS Shaun]

Cops arent your friends. The brass are corrupt careerists and the front line guys want to avoid paperwork, but if they have to do paper work and charge you they will happily ruin your life with as many charges as possible. Cops arent your friends. Those who choose to become police officers remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. Sorry.

While I agree one would be foolish to think that a police officer on duty, is ever their friend... That's actually a REALLY good indicator that the officer is very talented at their job.
I do however need to point out, that this is ABSOLUTELY not the view or opinion of ATRS and we appreciate the support and business we have had with countless law enforcement officers over the years.

It's obviously correct that they are not your friends. While I agree the top brass are often corrupt careerists, with Bill Blair being example #1, there are certainly some good men in the leadership ranks, somewhere in this country. I also agree that a cop in the situations we're contemplating, would arrest you, but calling them agents of tyranny and that they chose "remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society" is a bit of a stretch.

I've spent considerable time in countries where the police are corrupt through-and-through, and when I come back to Canada, I am very thankful for the fact that the majority of cops do their jobs well, and mostly with integrity. I'm sure there are douchebag cops here and there (not sure if Murray Smith qualifies as a copy but he certainly qualifies as a douchebag). Believe me, you would know it were this not the case. I've had to pay bribes to police (not in Canada obviously). I have family that have been shot by police for no reason at all, with hardly a reprimand. Canada's police aren't perfect but they are REALLY good compared to most of the world.

Secondly, how could anyone fault a cop for failing to resist tyranny, and in doing so risk their jobs, pensions, family's financial security etc when the average gun owner won't even pony up money to fund lawsuits, their orgs, file an s74, etc?

Police should be reminded that gun owners have long been some of their staunchest allies. With the current hostilities directed at police, they could probably use a few.

This sentence, resounded heavily and I felt needed a quote and to be put in bold.

 

[steamy teabag]

On the issue of variants, has anyone else read the CCFR motion for an injunction? In a deposition, Murray Smith couldn't even come up with a consistent definition of variant himself and it seems like how they interpret varies case to case. It makes my blood boil that this ###### got a fat pension, and on top of it is probably getting rich consulting fees now. He should be in prison.

Or made to pay damages for the economic destruction he is personally responsible for.

 

[*crash*]

HotSoup...
"Cops arent your friends. The brass are corrupt careerists and the front line guys want to avoid paperwork, but if they have to do paper work and charge you they will happily ruin your life with as many charges as possible. Cops arent your friends. Those who choose to become police officers remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. Sorry."

I am speaking of the frontline guys, not of the brass...

So, I'm a career soldier and therefore by your definition, I and a very long lineage of soldiers, have removed themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. So your saying our sacrifices and losses are all to propagate tyranny... like WW1 & 2 vets, Korean vets, peacekeeping vets and Afgan vets... were all out to make fame and fortune off the little people... line our pockets and rule the population without a thought for anyone but ourselves.

I have had the opportunity to visit some interesting places and not everyone I went with were able to return in the same state they left.

I have had friends that I served with that have gone on to policing, only wishing to continue serving the people of this nation. They only wish to protect those who can't or won't stand up for themselves.

Some of the people I met serving overseas were cops and they did an outstanding job.

Are all cops great... no they are a cross section of society, but most do what they do to try and make things better.

Are all CGN'ers and owners great... no they too are a cross section of society, but I hope they try to make things better.

Intolerance is not actually a great characteristic... it's better not just paint everyone with a big brush as you do not like it as an owner as well.

 

[rally guy]

HotSoup...
"Cops arent your friends. The brass are corrupt careerists and the front line guys want to avoid paperwork, but if they have to do paper work and charge you they will happily ruin your life with as many charges as possible. Cops arent your friends. Those who choose to become police officers remove themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. Sorry."

I am speaking of the frontline guys, not of the brass...

So, I'm a career soldier and therefore by your definition, I and a very long lineage of soldiers, have removed themselves from the dignity of functional civil human society by become agents of tyranny. So your saying our sacrifices and losses are all to propagate tyranny... like WW1 & 2 vets, Korean vets, peacekeeping vets and Afgan vets... were all out to make fame and fortune off the little people... line our pockets and rule the population without a thought for anyone but ourselves.

I have had the opportunity to visit some interesting places and not everyone I went with were able to return in the same state they left.

I have had friends that I served with that have gone on to policing, only wishing to continue serving the people of this nation. They only wish to protect those who can't or won't stand up for themselves.

Some of the people I met serving overseas were cops and they did an outstanding job.

Are all cops great... no they are a cross section of society, but most do what they do to try and make things better.

Are all CGN'ers and owners great... no they too are a cross section of society, but I hope they try to make things better.

Intolerance is not actually a great characteristic... it's better not just paint everyone with a big brush as you do not like it as an owner as well.

Well said and thank you for your service.

 

[Sqr]

What I do understand is that the OIC includes "variants" of the newly named prohibited firearms.

What I don't understand is how firearms that were previously inspected and approved as non variants are now being deemed variants by the same buffoon(s) that said they were not variants.

*mind blown*

The CFO, RCMP and Government are being pressured by the anti firearms lobbyists. Nothing more.

All three are being pressured from both sides so the government is stuck between a rock and hard place. The only way to be successful is to use equal or greater data based pressure to offset the opinion emotional based lies the antis are resorting to. Having said that the lies are truly believed by the antis and the RCMP are being forced to act on how these things look.

 

[Cameron SS]

What I do understand is that the OIC includes "variants" of the newly named prohibited firearms.

What I don't understand is how firearms that were previously inspected and approved as non variants are now being deemed variants by the same buffoon(s) that said they were not variants.

*mind blown*

Its called striking while the iron is hot.

In 2015 the conservatives passed regulations that forbade the RCMP from 'reclassifying by FRT', which is when they change their mind on a classification after the initial determination.

From 2010 to 2015 there was a dozen or more such reclassifications, and the CPC was getting pissed off at constantly having to slap the RCMP down. Rather than abolish the Canadian Firearms Program and order the destruction of the FRT, the CPC passed a little regulation that said cut it out.

From 2015 until April 2020. There were no reclassifications by FRT, but there was a long and growing list of new firearms that the RCMP wanted banned. When the OIC happened the RCMP SFSS used that as an opportunity to throw some babies out with the bath water. Everyone who had a hand in it should be fired and made personally liable for the damages to the affected parties. Murray Smith the despicable servile coward deserves to rot and die in prison for the damage he has done to this country.

In his affidavit he actually relies on his three years of service as a reservist in winnipeg as the 70s as the basis for claiming that he knows better about Canadian Armed Forces Shooting Competitions than a retired brigadier General who is the head of the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association. He is probably the worst example of a spineless government bureaucrat that exists.

 

[infidel29]

If Rick says it was a customer, it was a customer.

But it really doesn’t matter who it was. It’s been done, and arguably this day has been coming for awhile. So now it’s time to circle the wagons and show our support for someone who has truly earned it.

Agreed. I've had work done by Rick on a couple guns and always been pleased with the result. Donated $100

 

[B-N]

Made a $100 contribution, but would like to do some more smaller contributions. Is it possible to do more smaller contributions, say bi-weekly, automatically. Kinda like patreon, it just comes out of your account.

I did a quick google and couldn't find anything.