A buddy has a bar in wood 20 bore hammer by Purdey. It's in for a restock and rehab. Beautiful gun!
Let's see some pic's of your SxS's & O/U's
- Thread starter Win/64
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A buddy has a bar in wood 20 bore hammer by Purdey. It's in for a restock and rehab. Beautiful gun!
That sounds like it might help narrow down the possibilities. My inclination is to lean towards it being a scratch due to the horizontal and linear nature of the line. You would think that, with twist barrels, a crack would be diagonal – following the natural seams in the materials. Or, at the very least, that it would be jagged as it half follows the stresses and gets bled to the side by the material bias.
Also, the bottom of the scratch is shiny. Your idea is predicated on the fact that cracks go deeper through the metal and will retain brake cleaner longer after the surface stuff has evaporated. The same should be true about the bottom of the scratch – it should be dark due to powder residue and crap getting jammed in there, if it were a crack.
I managed to get a pretty decent photo of it that you can view along with photos of the gun at:
https://img.gg/CuYDm9a
As you will see the gun has been used. It was no safe queen. However, almost all of the wear on the stocks is superficial and there are no cracks. The receiver is is good condition with even some case colours still visible after 118 years.
The lockup is a double underlug with doll’s head rib extension. The action is very slightly loose to an extent that can easily be rectified. The gun retains all of the original screws, including both hammer screws, and none have been buggered.
As you know, in England sub gauge guns were often ordered for women or as youth guns. With a LOP of 13” from the front trigger, this example was almost certainly one of those. This gun is in my collection as a candidate for full restoration.
The answer may lie in British laws; I believe after around 1920 it was much harder to get permission to own a rifle on one's ticket, so having a set of shotgun barrels fitted to the gun allowed one to keep shooting on one's licence. It is certainly the reason some large-calibre double rifles were bored out to smooth-bore.
Swapping one barrel for another has been around since the days of percussion at least, and a few makers routinely made breech-loaders with two sets of barrels. I suspect the compromise meant the shotgun was never balanced as well, or as elegant, as a purpose-built shotgun, as the action would be built stronger/heavier and the stock shaped differently. The sets I've seen (pin-fires, admittedly, but what do you expect?) always appear slightly out of whack; sort of like when you see a 16 or 20 built on a 12-gauge frame.
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Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
I see what you mean. I was thinking that the margin question was on the outside, not in the chamber/forcing cone. Kind of a bad location to test the severity. I was thinking perhaps an X-ray but that won't work there and I am not even sure it could be magna fluxed inside like that. Any engine building shop would have the means to magna flux that if it can be done inside the barrel. I would agree that, usually, a crack in a laminated barrel would typically be from an inclusion in the weld and follow the the weld. If that is a crack, I would suspect that there is rust between. the barrels that weakened them to the point that it cracked along the joint. Other than magna fluxing I can't think of another way to be sure but the gun is certainly worth checking out. I doubt that it would cost much and if you get a "gun guy": at the machine shop, might even be free. Thank you for sharing the pics. It is a lovely little gun that shows a lot of "experience" but no abuse.
On the Saxton gun, I understand this was a trade name used by Alfred Field & Co. of Birmingham, who also imported to New York city. Earlier guns were sourced from the Birmingham trade, and after 1890 or so guns bearing the ‘Saxton’ brand were built in Belgium (Pieper?), and have Belgian proofs. For what its worth, it looks like a crack to me, and I would treat it as such unless it could be definitely determined otherwise. With export guns of that age, built to a low price point back then, I would be hesitant to shoot one, unless I was sure no one in the last few decades had tried putting 2 3/4” or 3” nitro shells through it; it being slightly off-face could be a clue towards that having happened. It being a 20 is certainly interesting and it appears in lovely condition, but I expect it was only proofed for black powder?
Well compared to some of the fine firearms on these pages this might appear to be a step up from a club.But it is my idea to use it in the foul weather we have out west to limit my "finer" guns so here it is CZ Bobwhite G2 Project Upland 12g 5 chokes nice rib and shoots pretty well
Intedserve
CGN Regular
- Location
- Unionville, Ontario, L3R8H4
Oh well, another lost Westley Richards gun comes home. A very pretty ‘gold name’ 12 gauge from about 1908-1910, complete with WR patent detachable locks, ejectors and single trigger. Sleeved, likely reconditioned and reproofed 2 3/4” in 1960 by EC Ashthorpe who perfected and I believe patented the sleeving process. Bar none, this is the most perfect sleeving job I’ve ever seen, undetectable except being marked ‘SLEEVED’. On a side note, interestingly according to the original proof marks this gun had rifled chokes, it was an EXPLORA.
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winchester12
CGN Regular
- Location
- Chatham ontario
I love the colors of the receiver. Nice gun.
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Very nice Westley. It was indeed a very good job of being sleeved.
Wow Ashcroft, what a treasure. Beautiful gun, interesting in that it's an Explora, and great sleeving job. I peered pretty hard at those pics. I think I can see a transition but it's so slight it could just be my eyes messing up from staring so long. Give it some time afield and let it do what it was made for!
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What an interesting gun Ashcroft!
Another really nice Westley drop lock, Jim. Too bad the Paradox rifling was removed. I suspect this was done years ago in the UK so that the "gun" would be classified as a shotgun rather than a rifle. Apparently, it was far easier to own a shotgun in the UK than a rifle.
At one time I owned a Westley Faunetta which is the 20 gauge version of the 12 gauge Explora. The Faunetta chokes were really tight and could turn skeet targets into a black cloud of dust.
Its interesting that most Westley shotguns with drop locks have single triggers. I've owned a couple and the triggers were flawless. I have to assume that Westley single triggers had a fine reputation for reliability. Other English makers didn't enjoy that reputation with the exception of Boss who reportedly had the best English single trigger. I've never had the opportunity or financial wherewithal to have a Boss.
At one time I owned a Westley Faunetta which is the 20 gauge version of the 12 gauge Explora. The Faunetta chokes were really tight and could turn skeet targets into a black cloud of dust.
Its interesting that most Westley shotguns with drop locks have single triggers. I've owned a couple and the triggers were flawless. I have to assume that Westley single triggers had a fine reputation for reliability. Other English makers didn't enjoy that reputation with the exception of Boss who reportedly had the best English single trigger. I've never had the opportunity or financial wherewithal to have a Boss.
