LET'S SEE YOUR WINCHESTER MODEL 21's

This is a 20 ga M21 skeet gun with the usual single selective trigger, ejectors, pistol grip, beavertail forend and 26" solid rib barrels which were the rage back in the 30's when this gun was made. What is unusual about it is that it is a Trap Grade Skeet gun and as you can see from the pics it is marked "Trap" and "Skeet" on the trigger guard. This option was available for a few years back in the 30's. They also made a Tournament Skeet and a Skeet about the same time. The difference between them is moot but in the hands of a serious collector each gun becomes collectible and valuable.
Photos courtesy Guns International.
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Just happened to spot this M21 in 410 and I thought I would share it with followers of this thread. Not sure how many 410's Winchester made in M21 but they probably number in the double digits.
This gun was originally a 20 gauge in Deluxe grade with 410 barrels added sometime after original manufacture. Most M21 410's have skeet chokes but this one is for field use with Full and Full chokes. The barrels are 28" with vent rib and 3" chambers. Its weight is on the heavy side at 7 lb 7 oz and the 28" vent rib barrels certainly are heavier than 26" solid rib ones. Even so, 20 ga M21's weigh about 7 lbs so this 410 is only 7 ounces heavier.
The asking price is $14,750 and sale is pending.
Enjoy.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...er-model-21-410-vent-rib.cfm?gun_id=103391913
 
Here is my Skeet Model 21 that came out of Kingston Ontario within the last 12 months. It dates to 1947 (SN 195xx) with solid rib, 26" barrels, and is choked WS1 and WS2. Those are still a bit tight with modern ammo, but I am breaking 23-24 birds when I do my part, which is good enough for myself.

Gentleman was selling for the estate of a deceased friend, and I have been unable to determine the name/location associated with the pictured Gun Club. Sadly, the Winchester logo was removed to do that!!
 

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patricksbb391 said:
Here is my Skeet Model 21 that came out of Kingston Ontario within the last 12 months. It dates to 1947 (SN 195xx) with solid rib, 26" barrels, and is choked WS1 and WS2. Those are still a bit tight with modern ammo, but I am breaking 23-24 birds when I do my part, which is good enough for myself.

Gentleman was selling for the estate of a deceased friend, and I have been unable to determine the name/location associated with the pictured Gun Club. Sadly, the Winchester logo was removed to do that!!
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Very nice M21. Looks original too.
You are right WS1and WS2 chokes were meant for shells made with fiber wads from many years ago. With today's plastic wads the gun will shoot pretty tight for skeet. But, nothing wrong with turning targets into clouds of black dust.
 
Cow Town Bill said:
Very nice M21. Looks original too.
You are right WS1and WS2 chokes were meant for shells made with fiber wads from many years ago. With today's plastic wads the gun will shoot pretty tight for skeet. But, nothing wrong with turning targets into clouds of black dust.
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Thank You Bill. I primarily bought to look classy while hunting upland birds, Ruffies and some Pheasant.

Ironically, or not, I sold a Beretta O/U that looked great but stock and my face did not prove compatible. sold that. I am now shooting this M21, and M23s in both 12 and 20, and my success on the range has improved by about 10 birds to get Me to at least 23/25. I also have a Ruger Red Label I started to shoot, and with interchangeable chokes, and it is absolutley lights out....I shoot that better than all the Winnies, but only due to choke constriction. That said, I am firm believer in the SxS platform.

I will say, I love rifles, and shotguns both, but having been on this Forum a good long time, relatively speaking, I do not believe Canadian firearm enthusiasts really appreciate fine shotguns. Seems a more utilitarian platform, save a small crowd, here. As evidenced by fact this thread, now 6 years old is only 10 pages long.
 
patricksbb391 said:
Thank You Bill. I primarily bought to look classy while hunting upland birds, Ruffies and some Pheasant.

Ironically, or not, I sold a Beretta O/U that looked great but stock and my face did not prove compatible. sold that. I am now shooting this M21, and M23s in both 12 and 20, and my success on the range has improved by about 10 birds to get Me to at least 23/25. I also have a Ruger Red Label I started to shoot, and with interchangeable chokes, and it is absolutley lights out....I shoot that better than all the Winnies, but only due to choke constriction. That said, I am firm believer in the SxS platform.

I will say, I love rifles, and shotguns both, but having been on this Forum a good long time, relatively speaking, I do not believe Canadian firearm enthusiasts really appreciate fine shotguns. Seems a more utilitarian platform, save a small crowd, here. As evidenced by fact this thread, now 6 years old is only 10 pages long.
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I don't know. There seems to be a fair number here who appreciate fine shotguns. You might try scanning the stickied threads at the top of the index. There is one thread about fine engraving that is as old as this one and has 30 pages. And of course there is the granddaddy of them all, the "Show us your SXS" thread, started in 2009. So clearly the oldest but it's got 160 pages of fine shotguns and a whole lotta views.
 
canvasback said:
I don't know. There seems to be a fair number here who appreciate fine shotguns. You might try scanning the stickied threads at the top of the index. There is one thread about fine engraving that is as old as this one and has 30 pages. And of course there is the granddaddy of them all, the "Show us your SXS" thread, started in 2009. So clearly the oldest but it's got 160 pages of fine shotguns and a whole lotta views.
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And, if you want to see fine guns up close and personal, you can attend the Upper Canada gun classic in Oshawa. CB can tell you far more than I can.
 
canvasback said:
I don't know. There seems to be a fair number here who appreciate fine shotguns. You might try scanning the stickied threads at the top of the index. There is one thread about fine engraving that is as old as this one and has 30 pages. And of course there is the granddaddy of them all, the "Show us your SXS" thread, started in 2009. So clearly the oldest but it's got 160 pages of fine shotguns and a whole lotta views.
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I really hope there are a fair number of folks who appreciate fine shotguns. There are certainly a number who post and contribute regularly to the above-mentioned threads and to a few others. But given the steady influx of new members, almost daily, and seeing none of them contribute to these threads (even if it might help them gain access to the EE), I wonder if the number of fine-gun enthusiasts is steadily diminishing. Read the current topics, and you get the impression that the primary interests among this particular community are inexpensive guns used to shoot slugs and buckshot at immobile targets, bog-standard B-guns and the like at clay birds, and modding. Yes, there is an interest in serious clay-competition guns, and in owning and hunting with quality guns, but this group is not growing here at CGN in an appreciable way, at least not in a way I've noticed. Just a thought.
 
Stephen Nash said:
I really hope there are a fair number of folks who appreciate fine shotguns. There are certainly a number who post and contribute regularly to the above-mentioned threads and to a few others. But given the steady influx of new members, almost daily, and seeing none of them contribute to these threads (even if it might help them gain access to the EE), I wonder if the number of fine-gun enthusiasts is steadily diminishing. Read the current topics, and you get the impression that the primary interests among this particular community are inexpensive guns used to shoot slugs and buckshot at immobile targets, bog-standard B-guns and the like at clay birds, and modding. Yes, there is an interest in serious clay-competition guns, and in owning and hunting with quality guns, but this group is not growing here at CGN in an appreciable way, at least not in a way I've noticed. Just a thought.
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Good comments Steve.
I know a number of serious collectors of fine guns who are not members of CGN. And, there are members of CGN who don't post a lot. Some people aren't computer oriented and taking good photos and posting pics and writing informed comments simply aren't their thing.
Similarily, a number of gun clubs have a hard time to find members who are willing to contribute time and effort to the club.
Its up to a number of us older guys to develop and educate the next generation.
Bill
 
Cow Town Bill said:
Good comments Steve.
I know a number of serious collectors of fine guns who are not members of CGN. And, there are members of CGN who don't post a lot. Some people aren't computer oriented and taking good photos and posting pics and writing informed comments simply aren't their thing.
Similarily, a number of gun clubs have a hard time to find members who are willing to contribute time and effort to the club.
Its up to a number of us older guys to develop and educate the next generation.
Bill
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I believe Mr. Nash and Yourself have both hit on some of the issues.

I know lots of folk whom are less active that myself on these forums, whom own wonderful kit. That said, Steve's comments about diminishing interest is is likely #1 reason. I don't buy garbage, and have increasingly acquired nicer kit as time progresses, but firearms marketing and the poor state of the economy means younger types are acquiring pedestrian platforms that simply go bang.

Appreciate your time and thoughts.

Cheers!
 
There were a few M21's made in 32 gauge and one was up for auction in the US last December. This one appears to have been completed by CSMC using Winchester parts. When CSMC bought the rights to the M21 they also bought all of Winchester's inventory of parts. Since the serial number starts with a "W" its likely that receiver was made by Winchester; I recall CSMC used their own serial number series for M21's made completely in their own factory.
This 32 gauge has 28" vent rib barrels choked IC and Mod. The gun has single selective trigger, beavertail forend, and a straight grip. The stock has nicely figured walnut with B style carving. It has very tasteful engraving along the line of #4 or #5 style. And, it is nicely cased.
It sold for $9225 which I suspect is somewhat less than a similar gun in 20 gauge.
There was also a 14 gauge in this auction and is reportedly the only one known to exist. Not nearly as fancy as 32 gauge but still fetched $6600.
Here's the full details of the 32 gauge:
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com..._WINCHESTER_MODEL_21_SIDE_BY_S-LOT643172.aspx
 
I see the National treasure ,Grande Royal model 21 built for John Olin is for sale 28/.410 two barrel set WS1 & WS2 26"vent ribs.Gold inlays ,jeweled flats quite ornate. No price but I'M sure it will not be reasonable.
 
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