Let's Talk Big Bores

A 350 grain .458" bullet is fun to shoot and certainly OK for hunting North American game like big bears or bison, but is not really adequate for the kind of game animals real "big bore" Dangerous game rifles are designed for. Not enough sectional density to penetrate through a meter of elephant skull bone, or the horn boss & skull of a cape buffalo. I'd choose a 300 grain .375" bullet over that short, fat and ballistically inferior bullet for hunting really large game. 45 caliber dangerous game bullets start at 450 grains, and 500 gr. is better for most dangerous game purposes.
 
Those heavy bullets need a lot to get started.
I can shoot maybe 20 rounds of 270 grain 375 before my brain starts to object and I get flinchy. Same at about 10 rounds of 350 grain .458 and after 3 or 4 full house 500 grainers I’m done. It’s not linear.
 
.450M BLR 400gr @ 2050 fps mv pretty sure it could do faster. https://i.imgur.com/vL94INU.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/ynwjBnY.jpg

Lever advantage if quick follow up shot needed on big Bear for example vs single shot .450M No.1 https://i.imgur.com/Qipe85J.jpg

OP: asked about game taken with big bores, 1 example my similar ballistics .45-70 No.1 300gr TSX @ 2600 fps mv dropped this high country 6x7 Bull Elk I called in 1 shot instant kill @ ~120m. https://i.imgur.com/iZcMvZE.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/gLTTkK3.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/gWjutTi.jpg
 
As a follow up to the big bore pricing listed in my earlier post I just looked up 50BMG and was surprised.

Was 50 BMG always this "cheap" or did ammo costs plummet after the OIC? I'm seeing boxes of PMC 50 BMG for $5-6/round.

That's cheaper than 338 Lapua.
 
4fifty8 said:
.450M BLR 400gr @ 2050 fps mv pretty sure it could do faster. https://i.imgur.com/vL94INU.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/ynwjBnY.jpg

Lever advantage if quick follow up shot needed on big Bear for example vs single shot .450M No.1 https://i.imgur.com/Qipe85J.jpg

OP: asked about game taken with big bores, 1 example my similar ballistics .45-70 No.1 300gr TSX @ 2600 fps mv dropped this high country 6x7 Bull Elk I called in 1 shot instant kill @ ~120m. https://i.imgur.com/iZcMvZE.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/gLTTkK3.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/gWjutTi.jpg
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Respectfully with regards to the .450 (and as a result hot .45-70), it was the least least impressive round on big bears I’ve guided. Your 300gr load actually wakes it up, and is far more effective than 400s. Plus that 300 TSX will penetrate all of what most of the 400 soft points will. If it drops below ~2200fps at the impact, it compares very poorly to even just a 30-06 or .300 for dropping big bears fast. If you’re going the American big bore way (usually .45s designed to be shot from light and short barreled rifles) with the exception of the Lott, load em light for caliber and fast for the chambering to get them working.

People think when I say this I’m harping the .450 and .45-70 don’t kill, not at all, they’re 100% lethal. But so is a 75 ft-lb compound bow. The slower you go, the more you lean towards the bow way of killing, “letting the light in” (and the blood out) as a knowledgeable member here has put it. I’m not trying to compare a .450 directly to a bow, a .450 penetrates heavy bone, etc. Just illustrating as you get below the 2200fps impact threshold for radiating tissue damage from pressure waves, the fewer dead right there’s you’ll see. Lots of reasons they can still happen, you’ll just see them less and longer death runs. On grizzlies etc in thick ####, that’s not something you want.

I like short handy lever guns… if loaded correctly, fast with a tough bullet. But they compromise in many ways.
 
brybenn said:
What 458 bullet are you getting to 3200fps? Or are you using sabots?
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I’ve run ASG 458 310GN very close to that speed. They are a custom bullet and are very long and pointy. Claimed BC sits at .430 and they seem to follow that in real life.

225 FTX (452) at/above that speed with .15” group at 2980 fps. Bullets don’t hold up on impact.

300 barnes copper up to that speed. This is my favourite hunting bullet. Hunting load either 2450 of 2740 fps depending on situation.

No sabots as they can’t handle much above 2600 fps IMO nor did I get accuracy either. Full form rifled bullets only.


There are fellows running 350 GN at 3200 with same barrel, I am not that brave!

I played a lot with the 310 GN in an FTR chassis, model 12 single shot action right port eject, Brux Match 458 barrel with radial brake. It was lots of fun but punishing recoil at higher velocities.
 
Longwalker said:
A 350 grain .458" bullet is fun to shoot and certainly OK for hunting North American game like big bears or bison, but is not really adequate for the kind of game animals real "big bore" Dangerous game rifles are designed for. Not enough sectional density to penetrate through a meter of elephant skull bone, or the horn boss & skull of a cape buffalo. I'd choose a 300 grain .375" bullet over that short, fat and ballistically inferior bullet for hunting really large game. 45 caliber dangerous game bullets start at 450 grains, and 500 gr. is better for most dangerous game purposes.
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I'm not convinced about that. I managed to finangle myself into some buffalo culls when government heli-gunning budgets were used up but the population problem remained. I was primarily using a hot loaded .458 Win and there was some concern about what day after day accumulated recoil negative effects would amount to. As a back-up plan I took a #### load of 350 grain TSXs along. Part of that was to drop recoil down to 375 levels; and part was to see to what extent a 458 could be made to fill a 375 role. Long story shortened up a bit; a 458 350 gr mono cranked up is every bit the equal of a 375 with standard weight bullets, at least on thick skinned
heavy animals like Asiatic buffalo which make Capes look like a chew toy for a poodle. Penetration sure wasn't a problem. Observed effects would easily put them as superior.

Now would I use them on a single animal trophy hunt as a first choice? Not likely. An elephant on purpose? Nope. Thin skinned North American game? I'd rather use a 270.
 
Dogleg said:
I'm not convinced about that. I managed to finangle myself into some buffalo culls when government heli-gunning budgets were used up but the population problem remained. I was primarily using a hot loaded .458 Win and there was some concern about what day after day accumulated recoil negative effects would amount to. As a back-up plan I took a #### load of 350 grain TSXs along. Part of that was to drop recoil down to 375 levels; and part was to see to what extent a 458 could be made to fill a 375 role. Long story shortened up a bit; a 458 350 gr mono cranked up is every bit the equal of a 375 with standard weight bullets, at least on thick skinned
heavy animals like Asiatic buffalo which make Capes look like a chew toy for a poodle. Penetration sure wasn't a problem. Observed effects would easily put them as superior.

Now would I use them on a single animal trophy hunt as a first choice? Not likely. An elephant on purpose? Nope. Thin skinned North American game? I'd rather use a 270.
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What were the aerial gunners using?
 
You've had some interesting experiences Dogleg! I agree with your observations and opinions. There is no substitute for experience. My experience on dangerous game is very limited. I was repeating what I've been told by Zimbabwe professional hunters who accompany visiting hunters and whose responsibility is to stop a wounded animal, often with a frontal shot or straight away shot. Quite a different scenario than the hunting asiatic buffalo as you described, but both are valid points.
 
I'm starting to reconsider my need for a big bore after seeing these ammo costs haha.

I'm not currently set up for reloading but I see now that it's definately required to enjoy these cartridges.

What's the most affordable of the retail options? 458 WinMag? Anything cheaper than this?

I was leaning towards 416 Rigby but $250/box is going to hurt.
 
Northern Shooter said:
I'm starting to reconsider my need for a big bore after seeing these ammo costs haha.

I'm not currently set up for reloading but I see now that it's definately required to enjoy these cartridges.

What's the most affordable of the retail options? 458 WinMag? Anything cheaper than this?

I was leaning towards 416 Rigby but $250/box is going to hurt.
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Honestly, your best bet is to get into reloading, and save money while working on your recoil handling abilities. I recall seeing one of the page sponsors with 458 WM ammo in the $160 range (Wolverine?), but that's still spendy to me.
 
Dangerous Game ammo is often sold in boxes of ten. The last box of .500 Jeffery I saw was nearly $300. You'd be well advised to bring a second rifle along for a day at the range.
 
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