Let's talk double rifles, from a beginners perspective.

[southernman]

Ive got a Fair Safari, SxS, with 3 barrel sets, 20ga, 7x57R and 9.3x74, been playing around with it for a few years, like it in 20 ga and 7x57, but its a bear to shoot full power 9.3 loads, rifle is too light just over 6 lbs,
Both barrels will shot with in 1.5” at 50m, the 9.3x74 seams to be crossing at 100m, not got that far with the 7mm mauser.
It has a couple faults, came with a hard but pad, that i cracked on a rock, awaiting on a soft pad, and a bit too light,
I have put aside for a couple year's now, only using the 20 ga for most of my grouse hunting, occasionally taking the 7x57 barrels for a walk,
If i was hunting dangerous game, i say this is not the right double, for those that claw, bite and stomp. It is however a plausible double to play with, and light enough to enjoy a stroll with,

Due to an impending move back overseas, i am thinking of selling it,

 

[Heddok]

I searched long and hard for a double several years ago. Finally found a B. Searcy 470 NE. The gun had been to Africa with it's previous owner and apparently served him well.

Fortunately I bought a ton of reloading components right off the bat. I have life time supply of bullets and brass at pre-Covid, pre-shortage and pre-inflation prices. 1 lb of IMR 4831 only gives me 65 rounds so a 8 lb jug goes fast. Plan on spending a fair bit of time finding components.

It's a good thing I have lots of supplies because there's a lot to learn with a big double. I have found that getting a rapid second shot off is a lot harder than it seems. The gun recoils up and to the right after the right barrel is fired and then up and left after after the left barrel. Getting a fast reload takes a fair bit of coordination.

So far I've put about 400 rounds through it. I've had to put off any trip to Africa due to personal commitments here. I'll need the time to practice a lot more so I can get two accurate shots and then have a smooth reload for second pair of shots.



Here's a typical group of two left and two right fired offhand at 80 yards



For field shooting practice I use the club's gong at 130 yards, shooting at gongs any closer than this destroys them. Here you can see how the second pair of shots is pretty terrible with one far left and the other at the bottom of the gong, this is why I need lots more practice. The recoil makes me tighten up and the second group is looser than the first.



Overall it's been a real enjoyable time. I may look at another double like a 375 Flanged as I fired a fellows Holland and Holland double in 375 Flanged and found it a real hoot. My orignal plan of getting a 450/400 changed when I realized 400 caliber bullets were next to impossible to find in Canada and may become an item only sporadically manufactured by Hornady.

I would suggest joining the Africa Hunting forum and the Nitro Express forum and reading and reading before you jump in. Also realize that the whole topic of double rifles attracts a lot of opinions from guys that have never owned one or fired one but have very strong opinions none the less. There's an awful lot of BS out there and it gets repeated over and over.

Lastly this is what happens when you hit the sunscreen wire on a chrono with a 500 gr bullet.

 

[propliner]

I picked up this S2 in .470 some time ago. I haven't seen anything quite like it since.

 

[Heddok]

Hey Can we see some more photo's of the wood on that? That's just incredible

 

[Evanguy]

I picked up this S2 in .470 some time ago. I haven't seen anything quite like it since.

Wow

 

[Longwalker]

I hunt with a Merkel 140 AE SxS chambered in .450-400 3" Nitro Express. Have found it completely satisfactory for my purposes. It shoots well with Hornady factory loads or my handloads. With a standing rest, it's accurate enough for the tasks I need it to do. 1.5-2" groups at 50 yards, 2 shots each barrel. I have used it to take elk, moose and cape buffalo. As previously mentioned, "doubling" or firing both barrels at once is almost always a problem due to operator error. If someone is having a problem with doubling but it doesn't double fire every time, it's isn't a fault of the gun. The second trigger is being stroked under recoil. You can't hold these things loosely. A firm grip is necessary.
It took me a while to learn how to properly shoot a double rifle, but lots of practise with a double shotgun configured with the same triggers, safety, etc. helps.
Rimmed cartridges are the way to go with any double. Rimless or belted magnums are a compromise that I will have nothing to do with.
The Germans make the best double guns if value for money, reliability, and accuracy are your primary concerns. The British have a great legacy of historical double rifle manufacturing. They make some wonderful rifles, but they're not actually better than the German guns. Just cost more.
Last week I was hunting elephant in Zimbabwe with a PH who has carried his Krieghoff SxS in .470 Nitro Express for twelve years while hunting dangerous game. It's worked flawlessly for him. It looks like it's been through a lot, but despite having no finish on barrel or stock, it shoots good and is always reliable. If I was to buy a new double today, I'd buy a Krieghoff because I like the sliding cocking piece instead of a safety. It's a superior system. And they make really good quality guns. If I couldn't afford a Krieghoff, I'd buy a Merkel. They are good, solid traditional guns. A Heym 88 or 89 is also just as good as a Krieghoff, has a traditional safety that some like better, and are priced competitively.
If you drop down in caliber, there are some really nice Italian and German and French rifles chambered in more useful calibers for North America. 9.3x74R, .30R Blaser, 8x57IRS and 7x65R. They often feature barrels in either SxS or O/U configuariont that the shooter can re-regulate themselves for point of convergence with various ammo. A wonderful feature.
I have a Beretta Silver Sable O/U in 9.3x74R. Only shot a couple bears with it so far, but it is beautiful, accurate with scope or open sights, and reliable. It cost half what a bigger bore double would. That model is not made any more, but decent smaller bore doubles are made by Merkel, Krieghoff, Heym, as well as Verney-Carron, Fair, Sabatti, and a few others.

 

[propliner]

Hey Can we see some more photo's of the wood on that? That's just incredible

Here are the only pics I have handy of the stock. It is Blaser's top-grade Turkish walnut.

 

[Heddok]

Thanks for posting those. That's just a beautiful piece of wood.

But someone will come along and tell us it'd be "better" with ceracoat and injection molded plastic

 

[medvedqc]

I hunt with a Merkel 140 AE SxS chambered in .450-400 3" Nitro Express. Have found it completely satisfactory for my purposes. It shoots well with Hornady factory loads or my handloads. With a standing rest, it's accurate enough for the tasks I need it to do. 1.5-2" groups at 50 yards, 2 shots each barrel. I have used it to take elk, moose and cape buffalo. As previously mentioned, "doubling" or firing both barrels at once is almost always a problem due to operator error. If someone is having a problem with doubling but it doesn't double fire every time, it's isn't a fault of the gun. The second trigger is being stroked under recoil. You can't hold these things loosely. A firm grip is necessary.
It took me a while to learn how to properly shoot a double rifle, but lots of practise with a double shotgun configured with the same triggers, safety, etc. helps.
Rimmed cartridges are the way to go with any double. Rimless or belted magnums are a compromise that I will have nothing to do with.
The Germans make the best double guns if value for money, reliability, and accuracy are your primary concerns. The British have a great legacy of historical double rifle manufacturing. They make some wonderful rifles, but they're not actually better than the German guns. Just cost more.
Last week I was hunting elephant in Zimbabwe with a PH who has carried his Krieghoff SxS in .470 Nitro Express for twelve years while hunting dangerous game. It's worked flawlessly for him. It looks like it's been through a lot, but despite having no finish on barrel or stock, it shoots good and is always reliable. If I was to buy a new double today, I'd buy a Krieghoff because I like the sliding cocking piece instead of a safety. It's a superior system. And they make really good quality guns. If I couldn't afford a Krieghoff, I'd buy a Merkel. They are good, solid traditional guns. A Heym 88 or 89 is also just as good as a Krieghoff, has a traditional safety that some like better, and are priced competitively.
If you drop down in caliber, there are some really nice Italian and German and French rifles chambered in more useful calibers for North America. 9.3x74R, .30R Blaser, 8x57IRS and 7x65R. They often feature barrels in either SxS or O/U configuariont that the shooter can re-regulate themselves for point of convergence with various ammo. A wonderful feature.
I have a Beretta Silver Sable O/U in 9.3x74R. Only shot a couple bears with it so far, but it is beautiful, accurate with scope or open sights, and reliable. It cost half what a bigger bore double would. That model is not made any more, but decent smaller bore doubles are made by Merkel, Krieghoff, Heym, as well as Verney-Carron, Fair, Sabatti, and a few others.

and i do liked your story in zim so well written and explained. thank you again.

 

[medvedqc]

Thanks for posting those. That's just a beautiful piece of wood.

But someone will come along and tell us it'd be "better" with ceracoat and injection molded plastic

both have their ways depending where and how you hunt.
some steel and wood may not like some heavy rain in rain forest. i remember about the beautiful double rifle that hunter brought to hunt bongo and forest sitatunga in CAR rain forest, it needed a lot of love back to his home ...

 

[Longwalker]

This is what a Krieghoff Classic "Big Five" Double Rifle looks like after being carried in the field for 12 years by a Professional Hunter. I think it looks rather charming.

 

[Mik123]

^ gorgeous

 

[Northern Shooter]

So based on price, and the feedback I've been getting it sounds like one of the German makes would be the direction I want to go with.

So now it comes down to:

Heym 88b/89b Vs. Merkel 140/160AE Vs. Kriegoff Big 5.

I have some reading to do.

 

[dan belisle]

I'm interested in reading this thread. I tried to get into doubles by building one but it never happened.

I got a Merkel sxs and bought two 43 Mauser barrels and turned them to slide in the shotgun tubes. The Knox form looked like a 12 gauge shell with the rim.

The plan was to silver solder the chamber area and use set screws or wedges in the ends of the barrels to regulate them.

But I used up a couple hundred rounds of 12g I had and fell in love with the shotgun. So 3 years later it's still a sxs 12g...

One day I'll get one. Actually Oskar Kob has one for me if I want a project. It's a Baikal MP-221 .45-70.

I going to call him tonight lol

I did similar with a Browning bss. - dan

 

[Longwalker]

Northern Shooter, may I suggest you read about this topic on two forums - African Hunting and Accurate Reloading. They have posts with the accumulated wisdom of many capable hunters over many years. You still have to sort through some BS, but less than you'd think. Good luck with your research!

 

[machinistbutler]

I have a Merkel 470. It has been flawless for me and plan on taking it on a Cape Buffalo hunt in the next few years.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Northern Shooter, may I suggest you read about this topic on two forums - African Hunting and Accurate Reloading. They have posts with the accumulated wisdom of many capable hunters over many years. You still have to sort through some BS, but less than you'd think. Good luck with your research!

Will do. Does CGN have a African hunting specific forum or is this everyone.

 

[Evanguy]

Will do. Does CGN have a African hunting specific forum or is this everyone.

That was everyone minus a few. This forum isn't even a hunting forum despite having the hunting section. I'd guess 80% if the members don't even hunt.

African hunting is awesome. When I was building my 500 Jeffery that's where I got the info. There is some experienced guys there

 

[conor_90]

Nitro express is a good forum; though more of a classic and collector focus than the others mentioned

 

[Ardent]

Oh boy, big subject. Owned and used a few extensively here and Africa covering the range between Merkels and H&H Royal, and carried them for work here. Will have to circle back on this thread when I’m not putting kids to bed.

If it helps to summarize for now, I sold my doubles to fund aviation habits but still love doubles, they’re at home in many pursuits long as you pick a versatile chambering.