Leupold 20-60 Mark 4 Tactical Spotting scope VS Vortex Razor HD 20-60 ??

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I'm looking to purchase a good 20-60 spotting scope and so far, the Leupold Mark 4 Tactical 20-60 with TMR reticle and the Vortex Razor HD 20-60 seems to be 2 good choices. Any opinion on those? Current owners of those spotting scope? Any other suggestion, maybe Bushnell Elite?

Primary use: long range target shooting and hopefully someday someday long range hunting in plains...

Thanks for helping me choosing the right Equipment. Cheers! Fred.
 
Here is a suggestion that you really ought to consider: Pentax 80ED

You will find it better than pretty much everything out there until you start with the letter K
 
What is your budget?

How big a scope can you handle?

Do you need to be weatherproof and impact resistant?

Willing to invest in fixed mag eye pieces?

Hunting and target shooting can have conflicting goals unless you have a deep pocket.

Then what does target shooting mean to you? Are you spotting for another shooter - looking at mirage to create a firing solution for yourself - are you trying to look at holes in target?

How far are you thinking?

Jerry
 
What is your budget?

How big a scope can you handle?

Do you need to be weatherproof and impact resistant?

Willing to invest in fixed mag eye pieces?

Hunting and target shooting can have conflicting goals unless you have a deep pocket.

Then what does target shooting mean to you? Are you spotting for another shooter - looking at mirage to create a firing solution for yourself - are you trying to look at holes in target?

How far are you thinking?

Jerry

Budget:about 2,500$. If I can get very good performance with less money that's good. Now, I tend to try to buy good stuff that will last me forever.

Size: smaller is better

Waterproof & Impact Resistant: YES definitely both!!

Fixed mag eye pieces: I prefer an adjustable magnification as this spotting scope would have multiple use.

Hunting vs Target: I want to use for both application. I would like to go in the field and spot for another, I want to see my 30 caliber holes in the target clearly at 400M (my range max shooting distance), I would like to use it for long range hunting to spot animals so I have to carry it with the rest of my gear. Need to be versatile.

Far thinking: yes I guess...

So now what do you recommend?
 
You have a solid budget and I can lean you towards some awesome scopes then you can see about eyeball testing to see what really turns your crank. All are superb but each favors different parts of the optics spectrum so you really need to view to make up your mind.

Let's start off by simply saying forget about any type, make or style of variable eye piece for the spotting scopes I am suggesting. They simply aren't all that good or not good through their range of adjustment. I have spent alot of time and money looking through a huge range of spotters for my needs. Just save yourself the grief of variables.

If you wear eye glasses, be critical of eye relief. You must have a min of 19mm as measured by Japanese brands. More is better (21 to 35mm). This is a huge reason why variables don't work. most have very short eye relief AND critical eye box. Like looking through a keyhole. Their glass also is so-so at best.... maybe really good in a certain range but never over the full range so what's the point.

And why I do not recommend Swarovski... not bad glass, super critical eye piece. NO joy.

Pentax 65 ED. This was my portable, hunting, weatherproof solution. Not bad for weight, fully armored and the Pentax FIXED mag eyepieces fit. These are some of the best eyepieces on the market... PERIOD. The scope body is not expensive so you have room to add 2 to 3 eyepieces. Get the best grade of eyepiece and they are also weather proof.

Remember, you must have BOTH weather proof scope body AND eyepiece. They can be different and having one fog up doesn't do you any good.

Also, the spotter can be vastly improved with the use of a better eyepiece. Very common with birders to get a large objective spotter of decent quality then amp up the performance with a top tier eyepiece. You end up with the same/similar optical performance in the central area of the image but the edge will/may be distorted. Doesn't apply to you as you want low weight and portable.

As to "inconvenience" with a fixed eyepiece, not really. If you are actually using a spotter to glass, you aren't moving anywhere for a while and if you need to set up, installing an eyepiece adds no time at all..... I remove the eyepiece when I put the spotter away. Saves room and damage of an expensive piece of kit. The current bayonet style of lense lock up makes swapping a simply twist and remove.

Most LER eyepieces are in the 25X range. That is plenty to view game at very far distances. On a clear winter day with nice sunlight, I was able to see the bark pattern of pine trees close to 2km away. Figure that is good enough to make out an animal

The Pentax 80 is amazing.. the 100 is just yum... but you better have a pack mule. These are big honking heavy spotters. For the range, yes. For a pack? Better have a mule under it. For the money, very hard to beat these in a big spotter.

KOWA/HOWA.... if there is a brand that defines quality affordable amazing glass spotters, this is it. This is what I now use for my competition spotting and couldn't be happier. The version I am using is also way too big for hunting and it's glass responds to mirage too easily. But I had fun glassing deer across Summerland last winter. NO problem making out the 2 points on the deer at least 2km away... And seeing the herd while move behind a stand of trees.

The 600 series (non ED version) is ubber popular and one of the most popular brand/model of spotter used in F class today. 25X LER and joy....

BUT if you want to see bullet holes, you will need to move up to KOWA's ED family... BRING money but now you are getting top tier colour correctness, depth of field, warmth, ease of use. Match up with the mag in the eyepiece you need and be very happy. This type of glass will see through mirage better so resolving horns are so much easier at LR when there is any mirage in the air. ... mine looses clarity way faster as it picks up mirage easily and why I want it for F class shooting.

Not sure on the numbers but it will be obvious when you look at the descriptions. Likely hit or exceed your budget but I am unaware of any compact spotter that can touch these for optics.

For the Sheep hunter, this is the type of glass you want. Will also make seeing bullet holes in the white much easier.

If you have a pack mule, way too much money and want the best of the best? my dream spotter is a current gen Leica Trinovid (don't remember the specs but it is the big one).

Sorry, most other brands aren't much good when it comes to actually seeing and resolving stuff way out there.

Enjoy...

Jerry
 
You have a solid budget and I can lean you towards some awesome scopes then you can see about eyeball testing to see what really turns your crank. All are superb but each favors different parts of the optics spectrum so you really need to view to make up your mind.

Let's start off by simply saying forget about any type, make or style of variable eye piece for the spotting scopes I am suggesting. They simply aren't all that good or not good through their range of adjustment. I have spent alot of time and money looking through a huge range of spotters for my needs. Just save yourself the grief of variables.

If you wear eye glasses, be critical of eye relief. You must have a min of 19mm as measured by Japanese brands. More is better (21 to 35mm). This is a huge reason why variables don't work. most have very short eye relief AND critical eye box. Like looking through a keyhole. Their glass also is so-so at best.... maybe really good in a certain range but never over the full range so what's the point.

And why I do not recommend Swarovski... not bad glass, super critical eye piece. NO joy.

Pentax 65 ED. This was my portable, hunting, weatherproof solution. Not bad for weight, fully armored and the Pentax FIXED mag eyepieces fit. These are some of the best eyepieces on the market... PERIOD. The scope body is not expensive so you have room to add 2 to 3 eyepieces. Get the best grade of eyepiece and they are also weather proof.

Remember, you must have BOTH weather proof scope body AND eyepiece. They can be different and having one fog up doesn't do you any good.

Also, the spotter can be vastly improved with the use of a better eyepiece. Very common with birders to get a large objective spotter of decent quality then amp up the performance with a top tier eyepiece. You end up with the same/similar optical performance in the central area of the image but the edge will/may be distorted. Doesn't apply to you as you want low weight and portable.

As to "inconvenience" with a fixed eyepiece, not really. If you are actually using a spotter to glass, you aren't moving anywhere for a while and if you need to set up, installing an eyepiece adds no time at all..... I remove the eyepiece when I put the spotter away. Saves room and damage of an expensive piece of kit. The current bayonet style of lense lock up makes swapping a simply twist and remove.

Most LER eyepieces are in the 25X range. That is plenty to view game at very far distances. On a clear winter day with nice sunlight, I was able to see the bark pattern of pine trees close to 2km away. Figure that is good enough to make out an animal

The Pentax 80 is amazing.. the 100 is just yum... but you better have a pack mule. These are big honking heavy spotters. For the range, yes. For a pack? Better have a mule under it. For the money, very hard to beat these in a big spotter.

KOWA/HOWA.... if there is a brand that defines quality affordable amazing glass spotters, this is it. This is what I now use for my competition spotting and couldn't be happier. The version I am using is also way too big for hunting and it's glass responds to mirage too easily. But I had fun glassing deer across Summerland last winter. NO problem making out the 2 points on the deer at least 2km away... And seeing the herd while move behind a stand of trees.

The 600 series (non ED version) is ubber popular and one of the most popular brand/model of spotter used in F class today. 25X LER and joy....

BUT if you want to see bullet holes, you will need to move up to KOWA's ED family... BRING money but now you are getting top tier colour correctness, depth of field, warmth, ease of use. Match up with the mag in the eyepiece you need and be very happy. This type of glass will see through mirage better so resolving horns are so much easier at LR when there is any mirage in the air. ... mine looses clarity way faster as it picks up mirage easily and why I want it for F class shooting.

Not sure on the numbers but it will be obvious when you look at the descriptions. Likely hit or exceed your budget but I am unaware of any compact spotter that can touch these for optics.

For the Sheep hunter, this is the type of glass you want. Will also make seeing bullet holes in the white much easier.

If you have a pack mule, way too much money and want the best of the best? my dream spotter is a current gen Leica Trinovid (don't remember the specs but it is the big one).

Sorry, most other brands aren't much good when it comes to actually seeing and resolving stuff way out there.

Enjoy...

Jerry

Thanks Jerry, this was very informative. As recommended by other GN's, the Pentax seems to be a "wise" choice. Any recommendations for where I should shop for the Pentax here in Canada? OpticPlanet in the US sells the kit for 1100$ (Pentax PF-80ED-A Spotting Scopes Angled ED Glass 80 mm Body 70950 / KU70115 Kit w/ Free Shipping and Handling).

Cheers!
 
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