Leupold clone arrived and NFG

Well first you said CHINA, now it's mabey Japan, or Phillipines or indonesia, korea etc.
Chinese scopes/glass is garbage, every single one of them I have bought or looked through has been crap. Bushnell makes no qualms about having the country of origin stamped on their scopes, China, Korea, Phillipines, Japan.....same with tasco.
I have no problem with the low end Bushnell stuff made in Korea (Banner and Trophy line) or the Phillipines (Legend Line), the chinese stuff is craptacular (Sportsman or what ever it's called).
Just saying that offshore isn't all bad, anything with glass in it made in China is bad. You should clarify when posting stuff like this:
So 'Chinese' glass ranges from the Cheapie TASCO/Simmons special to Nightforce/Luppy. Will be interesting to see what happens to Nightforce now that the supplying company is closing down.
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Mabey they can get the quality up, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
 
I purchased one.

It has parrallax adjustment adjustable eyerelief illuminated reticle.

I put it on my m14 as it has had quite a history of it breaking scopes!

I havnt had a problem with it since I've gotten it, fired atleast 120 shots through it.

It's zeroed and set for me to take out bear hunting.

I recommend one.

I put the money down for the most expensive one he had and with a one day delivery I was not disapointed at all!
 
mysticplayer said:
So 'Chinese' glass ranges from the Cheapie TASCO/Simmons special to Nightforce/Luppy. Will be interesting to see what happens to Nightforce now that the supplying company is closing down.

Jerry
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Jerry
Can you actually prove this or are you full of s***
 
Hitzy, it is confusing indeed. Companies like Luppy and bushnell make a wide range of products, each having their price point and origin of manf. This of course can easily change as production contracts move to competitive bids from different factories that may or may not be in the orig country.

From what I have seen and discussed, Nikon scopes are being produced in the Phillipines. Whether there is Japanese glass from Nikon Japan brought it is open to debate.

Luppy makes low end stuff whose origins come from 'China' . A fair statement as this refers to the Asian production machine that may include a variety of countries. One country may make the lenses, another the tube, etc. or it could all be make in one factory like the EOS - joint US/Chinese factory alluded to in a previous post.

The upper products most likely have Japanese glass and the best is Light Optical. Hakko is no more and did make a lot of awesome products both on their name brand as well as under contract for a variety of big names.

Please read that blog that Gale McMillan had. He was very much a player in the optics business and his comments was a factory will build to whatever quality control and price point someone wants. That same factory may build a "Nightforce" type scope on one line and a much lower valued product on another.

The tech for lense coating has been figured out by the Japanese for a long time now and all the hype about 'my coating is better then yours' is actually not true as they are basically the same coating.

And so it goes...

If you want a part a is made in factory b for company C, sorry, I can't offer that info so your point is well taken.

China, the actual country with factory, does make some amazingly horrible stuff. But their price reflects that. Some of the FITCO and Leeper stuff I have played with was not worth the few dollars spent. But they were only asking a few dollars.

However, there are products like these clones (with many more on the way) that cost peanuts yet give big dollar scopes a run for the money. I just played with the Leepers posted about.

I can honestly say I am very surprised. The reticle was crisp and clear. The dots were as resolved as my Elite or any other scope I have looked through. The image quality was not top drawer but certainly in the Elite 3200, VX II/III range. A bit 'white' like an over exposed picture but the target at 355yds was easily seen and could have been engaged with ease.

bushpilot has been doing tests and this scope has shot the box quite accurately. Certainly to the accuracy of the rifle it presently sits on. Seems to be holding zero and returning to zero well. Not alot of trigger time with it yet.

Is it perfect? Will it displace all the Nightforce scopes? Of course not.

But for $150 or thereabouts, absolutely stunning value. will it last? We are going to go beat on it to find out.

The fact that a Chinese low budget brand is making me sit up and take notice shows that the Chinese junk is on the way out (if you don't want to buy it). Just like the first Japanese tin box crapmobiles, they got better and have now displaced the big boys from Detroit.

I believe the Chinese have given us what we have wanted, dirt cheap product. Built to that level of price too.

They are now in a position to make upscale products under their brand or for anyone else. Times they be a changing which will help us as consumer but not if you want to work here.

As to the Indonesian thing, check out the alibaba website and do a search for scope or leupold/nightforce. There should be a variety of dealers listed out of Indonesia.

Why there? who knows but if these dealers are real and legit, they are offering new in the box top end Luppies and Nightforce for 1/2 or less of US retail.

Jerry

PS Savage, the info I talk about come from those in the business that I chat with. Some are writers, others do R&D for the brands. Believe it or not, entirely up to you. Sorry, no 'watergate tapes'
 
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Luppy makes low end stuff whose origins come from 'China' . A fair statement as this refers to the Asian production machine that may include a variety of countries. One country may make the lenses, another the tube, etc. or it could all be make in one factory like the EOS - joint US/Chinese factory alluded to in a previous post.
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Again, where is there any proof to back this up? I can buy that it's Japanese, Korean or Phillipenes origin, I can't buy that there is Chinese glass in them because the qulity would not be there and nobody would buy them for the $300 they sell for, period.
However, there are products like these clones (with many more on the way) that cost peanuts yet give big dollar scopes a run for the money. I just played with the Leepers posted about.
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OK then, what are the technical specs on the Leupy clone? Fully multicoated optics? What's the eye releif? One piece tube? How many lens are in the tube? Are they waterproof/fogproof/shockproof?
Oh, wait, no idea, they are sold by some dude out of his house and arrive in a plain white box.........
So how can you compare quality if you have no idea how well this clone is made?
I'm not saying it's total garbage, but it's still in the same league as the Sportsmans and Tasco Varmints and Marstar brand and every other scope made in China. You can put it on whatever you want. I think they might be fine on a rimfire or for just playing on the range. I doubt anyone with any sense would put one on their primary hunting rig or benchrest rifle.
For $150 Leupy clone you get 1/8 the quality of a leupold. That will probably be fine for the folks that buy them. I'm not a brand snob or anything like that, I don't even own a Leupold (can't afford them). Fair comparisions should be made with scopes of similar price or country of origin. Compare it to Tasco Varmint/world class for clairity, repeatability etc and then one could say it's an improvement on typical chinese stuff. Or compare to similar priced Bushnell Trophy or something, then one could say for $150 this chinese thing is a better deal.
But to say:
The image quality was not top drawer but certainly in the Elite 3200, VX II/III range. A bit 'white' like an over exposed picture but the target at 355yds was easily seen and could have been engaged with ease.
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It's a tough sell, not just that these scopes are 2 to 10 times the price of the chinese leupy clone, but also most folks have used/seen/looked through Elites and Leupies and know this will be pure bull####. Even the 3200's don't compare to the VXIII's but that's another issue.
I've had one of the Aimpoint clones on my AR for a while and it's held up fine. I wasn't too worried about glass quality as it's for short range stuff and there is no magnification. The dot is advertised as 4moa, it's actually double that + some as it covers the entire 8" bull at 100m. But hey, that's what you get for cheaping out and buying chinese optics:)
 
Hitzy, what proof do you have that the stuff ISN'T from China? I just go by what info is offered to me by people I hold to be credible. Take it for what you think it is worth.

As to comparisons, that was the whole point of my post. I am very very surprised. As part of my hobby, I buy and try as much optics as I can. After trying and looking through a whole bunch of stuff at all price points (except USO - never seen one in the 'flesh'), I know what works for me and a good feeling for how different scopes compare. That seems to agree with the feedback you read on this and many other sites.

This Leepers scope really made me go WOW simply because you didn't get typical Chinese crap. I mean the optics were really very useable. I have little doubt that if light was almost gone, another more expensive brand with better coatings wouldn't work better (but then I haven't tested near dark so...). However, for daytime use, the brightness/clarity/resolution was way better then I expected. Much better then scopes typically priced in this area and equal to 2 to 3 times as much.

The only obvious optical shortcoming was the 'whiteness' of the image. Colours were more washed out, less contrast, more white. Still no issue and I have seen this in other more expensive products.

I have no way to know what the internal make up of this scope is. neither does anyone else. however, I can only go by the image I see and how well it responds to the adjustments. So far, things are promising but early days for a new scope. See tests above.

Look through them if you can, beat on them and see if you come to the same conclusions. The scope will be seeing alot of rds in the near future in preparation for the Kamloops Farky. Maybe it will blow up, shift zero, rattle lenses loose. If it does or does not, I am sure one of us will post. The rifle is a Savage FV in 308 with 155gr loads so pretty typical of the use we all can relate to. Rifle is shooting 1/2 MOA or slightly better at 100yds.

shooting at 350+yds in gusty strongish crosswinds was 2/3 MOA. Not bad at all. Great shooting by bushpilot.

I am most certainly not saying that this is the end all to be all. Nor am I saying the scope is better then top tier products. Simply that things have changed dramatically and some of the Chinese products may not be as bad as their price suggests.

If you can find some old posts, I got a FITCO early on and was very critical on that stuff.

Time to go put more bullets down range and see what happens. The turrent spin test is next up. If it holds up there, that would be very impressive and surprising.

Just remember that the $150 Nike Airs runners some buy, leave Asia for a WHOLE BUNCH LESS>

Jerry
 
How about keeping north americans employed and save your money for something un-clone. Unless of course you need a scope for your Norinco precision battle rifle. Come on, you pay peanuts you deal with monkies. Try and shop within north america and our friendly european allies. I won't even eat their crappy greasy food, my way of no support.
 
bobsonofbob said:
How about keeping north americans employed and save your money for something un-clone. Unless of course you need a scope for your Norinco precision battle rifle. Come on, you pay peanuts you deal with monkies. Try and shop within north america and our friendly european allies. I won't even eat their crappy greasy food, my way of no support.
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I guess the computer you used to post this was made in North america?:dancingbanana:
 
I just seen and handled the Japan made M1 at a gunshow yesterday. they look good, but noticed that it looked like there was something on the inside of the optics. It seemed clear enough when you took it outside. What are these running for price on average? The one I seen he was asking $265 but offered one for $225. Are they worth a try?

Garnet
 
I have had 3 of the luepold clones that jacksxxi sells and they have all been top notch, only thing that has ever happened has been the windage knob came loose one day, a little locktite and it has never happened again.

again, great service from the above and if ordered via his webpage the scope will be at your door in under a week.
 
Let's keep the right perspective. The Leupold knockoff is priced to compete with the TASCO Varmint and Some Bushnell Buckhorns (or something like that). I've got the knockoffs on my M700 .223 SPS groundhog gun and it's just dandy for that job.

I've also got a knockoff sitting on top of my CZ452 Varmint for punching paper and precision rifle practice at 100 meters. Works well for that purpose. I don't know if I want to shoot one of them in a Service rifle match, but I might just do that with my .223 groundhog gun for shzts and giggles.

Like Westcle said, We all have our own applications !

Enjoy the cheap shzt for what it's worth !

Barney
 
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