Leupold,,,, very disapointed
- Thread starter alta780
- Start date
medvedqc- I am sorry but the cost, including shipping for me to buy a leupold scope from
optics planet have it shipped to an FFl who will export "legaly", and have it landed at my door is around $100, and that is on a single unit being shipped twice, so I don't know where you got the $250 plus plus plus from. Leupold gets them up here for no more than a few bucks each. if you want to call this leupold bashing go right ahead, but they didn't discualify warranty up here on scopes which cost less down there Just Because.
They have joined a long list of companies who think NAFTA is just for them and not us pea on,,, regular folks period.
I have bought many products in the US, and know how to do it, and I might say saved many many thousands of dollars, but as you said If I want to buy in the US go ahead, and if you want to be a lay down for the big companies, and give them your money, you also go ahead.
Just so this is not just leupold bashing, most of them do it, but leupold just stepped up and shut down canadian warranty. I wish I could list all the companies from sccopes to boats to appliances to airplanes that are screwing Canadians, but I can't. I am also tired of hearing the small market crap, there is no diference between 30 million Canadians, and 30 million Americans who live in 5 or 6 different States. If we are so small why are Walmart, and Homedepot, and Costco, everywhere. Oh ya and Cabelas is here to. Why because of the profit, thats why, and it don't hurt the bootem line to dang much either when they can get an extra 25 to 100% profit.
optics planet have it shipped to an FFl who will export "legaly", and have it landed at my door is around $100, and that is on a single unit being shipped twice, so I don't know where you got the $250 plus plus plus from. Leupold gets them up here for no more than a few bucks each. if you want to call this leupold bashing go right ahead, but they didn't discualify warranty up here on scopes which cost less down there Just Because.
They have joined a long list of companies who think NAFTA is just for them and not us pea on,,, regular folks period.
I have bought many products in the US, and know how to do it, and I might say saved many many thousands of dollars, but as you said If I want to buy in the US go ahead, and if you want to be a lay down for the big companies, and give them your money, you also go ahead.
Just so this is not just leupold bashing, most of them do it, but leupold just stepped up and shut down canadian warranty. I wish I could list all the companies from sccopes to boats to appliances to airplanes that are screwing Canadians, but I can't. I am also tired of hearing the small market crap, there is no diference between 30 million Canadians, and 30 million Americans who live in 5 or 6 different States. If we are so small why are Walmart, and Homedepot, and Costco, everywhere. Oh ya and Cabelas is here to. Why because of the profit, thats why, and it don't hurt the bootem line to dang much either when they can get an extra 25 to 100% profit.
Alta 780, is that using a FFL dealer who is shipping to a Canadian dealer who has the paperwork in place? If so I see the 100.00 fee. If not you must have found a dealer who is not ripping us off states side.
Jordan Smith, I think made a couple of good points that I was waiting to see if others would comment on.
The cost difference to land them here is nothing to even consider, the money exchange
costs are even next to nothing. I use scotia FX and I don't pay 2 to 3 cents on a dollar
to convert money, and I am sure Korth leupold and others, with large volumes of our hard earned dollars only pay a fraction of a penny per dollar.
The second thing he mentioned is that some of the onus must be put on to the retailers to get together, and get our prices down, and I am not just talking about scopes.
Also re: aletheuo comment about swarovski dictating bottom price. I don't doubt it for a second, many manufacturers dictate to smaller retailers in many ways. This is why many retailers form buying groups, and why manufacturers hate to deal with them, and sometimes colaborate by withholding stock etc to try to force the dealers to disband.
With one product I was invloved in for many years I had a relationship with 6 other dealers, who all shared information openly. When the factory got wind of this, they attemted to put a stop to the information sharing, and they weren't all that nice about it.
The cost difference to land them here is nothing to even consider, the money exchange
costs are even next to nothing. I use scotia FX and I don't pay 2 to 3 cents on a dollar
to convert money, and I am sure Korth leupold and others, with large volumes of our hard earned dollars only pay a fraction of a penny per dollar.
The second thing he mentioned is that some of the onus must be put on to the retailers to get together, and get our prices down, and I am not just talking about scopes.
Also re: aletheuo comment about swarovski dictating bottom price. I don't doubt it for a second, many manufacturers dictate to smaller retailers in many ways. This is why many retailers form buying groups, and why manufacturers hate to deal with them, and sometimes colaborate by withholding stock etc to try to force the dealers to disband.
With one product I was invloved in for many years I had a relationship with 6 other dealers, who all shared information openly. When the factory got wind of this, they attemted to put a stop to the information sharing, and they weren't all that nice about it.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I buy stuff from the US on a daily basis for business, and if the product is made in the US you do not have to pay any duty. Brokerage, shipping, GST, etc, yes you have to pay all of those fees, if applicable, but not duty. You only pay duty if the product is made outside of NA, even if it is sold by a US company.
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
I was tempted to post earlier but changed my mind as frequently the guys posting on here think they know it all and it is a major waste of time to convince them otherwise. However as I happen to know Calvin I will post this one last time and hopefully this clears things up.
1.) Grey Market - People are tossing this around without really knowing what they are talking about. I referred to purchasing a scope in the USA and the label "grey market" was used to make it sound shady. I will point this out one last time. A scope purchased from a Leupold recognized dealer in the USA and then legally imported into Canada is not grey market. PERIOD.
2.) Korth Group is NOT Leupold - they are a distributor in Canada that happens to service Leupold scopes.
3.) Canadian Warranty used by Leupold refers to scope servicing services by Korth Group. Not Leupold Warranty in General.
4.) Legally purchasing a Leupold doesn't invalidate your warranty regardless if you purchase your scope in Canada or USA. If Korth refused to service your scope for whatever reason, Leupold would still honor the warranty in the USA.
5.) Korth Gp not Leupold is trying to do a little bit of Market Control using their Service Depot as a selling point.
6.) Is Leupold corrupt bad or evil? IMO No - I personally think that Korth Group is using underhanded tactics to force Canadians to buy all Leupold Scopes through them but as an independent entity they are able to do whatever they damn well please.
7.) Are Leupold Scopes cheaper in the USA vs Canada? YES and NO. Do a simple search for all the recognized Leupold dealers in the USA and you will easily see that there are significant savings to be had. I would also point out that in the Cost-Analysis, only certain scopes are "Cheaper" (i.e. High end Mark 4 Scopes) while lower end scopes may be priced lower the effort of bringing them in almost negates the savings.
8.) Why did I buy USA and not Canadian? The reasoning was quite simple - I bought my Mark 4 Scopes about 5-6 years ago. At that point in time, Korth Group was unable to service these scopes and as such any custom orders had to go through Leupold USA anyway. With all the dealer markups and hoopla, I found that I was able to contact Leupold directly to order what I wanted and do the paperwork myself and I saved a significant amount of money (~$500 bucks/scope) Some guys may call me a liar but I did everything on the up and up (I still have all my paperwork) and comparing receipts showed me the truth of buying locally and buying from the States direct. Would I do this for every scope? Hell no, my time is too valuable to waste to save a few bucks but for big purchases this totally makes sense.
Just my 2 cents.
1.) Grey Market - People are tossing this around without really knowing what they are talking about. I referred to purchasing a scope in the USA and the label "grey market" was used to make it sound shady. I will point this out one last time. A scope purchased from a Leupold recognized dealer in the USA and then legally imported into Canada is not grey market. PERIOD.
2.) Korth Group is NOT Leupold - they are a distributor in Canada that happens to service Leupold scopes.
3.) Canadian Warranty used by Leupold refers to scope servicing services by Korth Group. Not Leupold Warranty in General.
4.) Legally purchasing a Leupold doesn't invalidate your warranty regardless if you purchase your scope in Canada or USA. If Korth refused to service your scope for whatever reason, Leupold would still honor the warranty in the USA.
5.) Korth Gp not Leupold is trying to do a little bit of Market Control using their Service Depot as a selling point.
6.) Is Leupold corrupt bad or evil? IMO No - I personally think that Korth Group is using underhanded tactics to force Canadians to buy all Leupold Scopes through them but as an independent entity they are able to do whatever they damn well please.
7.) Are Leupold Scopes cheaper in the USA vs Canada? YES and NO. Do a simple search for all the recognized Leupold dealers in the USA and you will easily see that there are significant savings to be had. I would also point out that in the Cost-Analysis, only certain scopes are "Cheaper" (i.e. High end Mark 4 Scopes) while lower end scopes may be priced lower the effort of bringing them in almost negates the savings.
8.) Why did I buy USA and not Canadian? The reasoning was quite simple - I bought my Mark 4 Scopes about 5-6 years ago. At that point in time, Korth Group was unable to service these scopes and as such any custom orders had to go through Leupold USA anyway. With all the dealer markups and hoopla, I found that I was able to contact Leupold directly to order what I wanted and do the paperwork myself and I saved a significant amount of money (~$500 bucks/scope) Some guys may call me a liar but I did everything on the up and up (I still have all my paperwork) and comparing receipts showed me the truth of buying locally and buying from the States direct. Would I do this for every scope? Hell no, my time is too valuable to waste to save a few bucks but for big purchases this totally makes sense.
Just my 2 cents.
Jordan i explain on the post #97.
im talking for firearms and rifle scope. if it s no duty because it s not written duty doesnt mean at least for my ears it s not ...
Ottawa is charging 6% when you re going troughout the official way for exporting from USA and importing into Canada.
there are some fees too on the US side : guys tells me how much you paid ?
your right for the 4) but it will take a lot of paperworks to service your scope in USA where the Korth will in most case do it directly ...
but what about other optics because it seems not only Leupold is doing that ...
for 1) grey market people seems no worried when byuing a only USA warranty aka Nikon or Canon cameras but when it s optics for rifle seems it s more sensible touch ... again you ll get a warranty in USA not in Canada if it s not grey market what is it ?
more generally no one buying in USA for scopes are telling they re buying all the rest of groceries ie down to the south not directed to you glock4ever.
Lets see if I can explain grey market through one example ------ a Cdn company goes to Europe (lets get away from USA which everyone thinks is part of Canada for some reason) and brings back a container of scopes that they bought from a retailer there that was going out of business. They get a steal of a deal.
The Cdn Company legally bring them into Canada and then retails the scopes through their business as Brand New ### scopes for cheap $$$.
Everyone buys them THINKING they have the same rights as other ### scope buyers from authorized Canadian dealers.
They may or may not.
They bought European ### scopes that had certain rights attached to them. If those rights say that the ### scope is only warrantied by the Prague repair shop - then that is what you get. You dont get to proceed to the ### repair shop in Toronto and when they reject you - you get all huffy and say they are a bad bunch of so and so's and go on-line and claim a dirty plot is afoot. It is known as "passing off". The grey market scopes are passing off on the known repair policy of the brand. To be clear - passing off is more common with fakes, that is not the case in this example. It is more subtle than that - as the scope is real - but meant for a different region of the world.
The same applies to any consumer good. The fact that we live next to the USA appears to affect the way people think about pricing.
Like it or not we in Canada have higher labour costs, higher retail and income taxes (a lot higher in most cases), more regulations and many more business headaches. We (as a group) wonder what happened to all our gun businesses and gunsmiths. We (as a group) continually chase the last dollar.
We all watch television ads and read American magazines and think we are them. NAFTA has something to do with it - it does - but it is not all encompassing. We do have a hugely smaller market - it does matter when you purchase wholesale.
Take a look at the authorized dealers list of Korth - see what known retailers are there and who is not.
BTW - I believe that Korth has little to no concern with individuals bringing up product from the USA for their own use. It would amount to a drop in the bucket. It is the other grey market retailers that matter to them.
If you want Korth to close their doors and we deal with USA for all Leupold repairs - that can happen very easily. Otherwise - they have to do what is in their company's best interest. It is their business decision. They will live or die by it.
The Cdn Company legally bring them into Canada and then retails the scopes through their business as Brand New ### scopes for cheap $$$.
Everyone buys them THINKING they have the same rights as other ### scope buyers from authorized Canadian dealers.
They may or may not.
They bought European ### scopes that had certain rights attached to them. If those rights say that the ### scope is only warrantied by the Prague repair shop - then that is what you get. You dont get to proceed to the ### repair shop in Toronto and when they reject you - you get all huffy and say they are a bad bunch of so and so's and go on-line and claim a dirty plot is afoot. It is known as "passing off". The grey market scopes are passing off on the known repair policy of the brand. To be clear - passing off is more common with fakes, that is not the case in this example. It is more subtle than that - as the scope is real - but meant for a different region of the world.
The same applies to any consumer good. The fact that we live next to the USA appears to affect the way people think about pricing.
Like it or not we in Canada have higher labour costs, higher retail and income taxes (a lot higher in most cases), more regulations and many more business headaches. We (as a group) wonder what happened to all our gun businesses and gunsmiths. We (as a group) continually chase the last dollar.
We all watch television ads and read American magazines and think we are them. NAFTA has something to do with it - it does - but it is not all encompassing. We do have a hugely smaller market - it does matter when you purchase wholesale.
Take a look at the authorized dealers list of Korth - see what known retailers are there and who is not.
BTW - I believe that Korth has little to no concern with individuals bringing up product from the USA for their own use. It would amount to a drop in the bucket. It is the other grey market retailers that matter to them.
If you want Korth to close their doors and we deal with USA for all Leupold repairs - that can happen very easily. Otherwise - they have to do what is in their company's best interest. It is their business decision. They will live or die by it.
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If I read the Korth letter correctly, it appears that they are saying that any Leupold scope brought into Canada by any other way than thru Korth has no Leupold warranty in either Canada or the US. I have read it a few times and that appears to be what it says in my mind.
What you guys are saying is contrary to this, however. So did Korth overstep their bounds in writing that letter? Scare tactics?
What you guys are saying is contrary to this, however. So did Korth overstep their bounds in writing that letter? Scare tactics?
you ve taken my words from my mouth ...
Everybody has an explanation for this and that, and grey market, and a container of scopes bought on the cheap etc etc etc.
Here is the real world,,,,,,,,, No one has explained why just about everything sold in Canada, is more expensive,,,,, Thru recognised, authorised, dealers,,, take all of the grey market cloud out of it, and look at it thru clear glasses for god sake,,, And one last time, it is not just scopes, Leupold just recently lowered themselves to the status of the crawling by following many other large " over charge Canada" companies.
There is no reason that anyone has,,, or can put forward that justifies Canadians paying
25% to many hundreds of percent more than the Americans,,, it just does not cost that much more to put product on the shelf here,, it is simply done to gouge out as much profit as they can squeeeeeeeze out of us.
Why do you think dealers of various products risk loosing their franchises in the US, just by selling to Canadians. it is certainly not because the manufacturer is trying to protect us from dealers down south who might over charge us there.
Wake up people, or for ever pay the price.
I have a new slogen... I pay more because,,,, "I am Canadian"
The end.
Here is the real world,,,,,,,,, No one has explained why just about everything sold in Canada, is more expensive,,,,, Thru recognised, authorised, dealers,,, take all of the grey market cloud out of it, and look at it thru clear glasses for god sake,,, And one last time, it is not just scopes, Leupold just recently lowered themselves to the status of the crawling by following many other large " over charge Canada" companies.
There is no reason that anyone has,,, or can put forward that justifies Canadians paying
25% to many hundreds of percent more than the Americans,,, it just does not cost that much more to put product on the shelf here,, it is simply done to gouge out as much profit as they can squeeeeeeeze out of us.
Why do you think dealers of various products risk loosing their franchises in the US, just by selling to Canadians. it is certainly not because the manufacturer is trying to protect us from dealers down south who might over charge us there.
Wake up people, or for ever pay the price.
I have a new slogen... I pay more because,,,, "I am Canadian"
The end.
this post will help you to understand how to buy a scope outside Canada but still a price on permit, handling and taxes.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=562426&page=4
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=562426&page=4
