Levers - When did we switch to carbines & why?

ninepointer

ninepointer

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When I look at the old photos from my hunt camp, something that stands out is that nearly everyone is holding a lever action rifle, not a carbine.

I know that back then the fellas hunted in the same manner as we do now (drives, dogs) and the cover was much the same. So why and when did it happen that hunters who used levers stopped carrying rifles, in favour of carbines?

1956.jpg
 
Must be your thing, as all the levers at my camp are still rifles, unless im mistaken.

EDIT - The other thing I find humourous is hunters now point at pictures and say "look at all the grey hair. Theres no young people involved in hunting". Theirs not a whole heck of a lot of young people in that picture either.
 
I have had both carbine and rifle levers. Admittedly all my levers were for Cowboy Action Shooting and my main match, pistol calibre rifles were carbines. However, my favourite lever of all time was my Winny 1894 in 38-55. It was made in 1901 and had a 26" octagon barrel and was a tack driver with out of the box 38-55 ammo.

It is one of the few rifles I regret selling. It would easily have been my first choice for deer hunting if I still had it.

Matt
 
blasted_saber said:
Must be your thing, as all the levers at my camp are still rifles, unless im mistaken.

EDIT - The other thing I find humourous is hunters now point at pictures and say "look at all the grey hair. Theres no young people involved in hunting". Theirs not a whole heck of a lot of young people in that picture either.
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Possibly the young folk that could have been in this pic were likely fighting in Europe. What year was this pic taken?
 
My "non-educated" guess is that it has to do with the evolution of rifle cartridge powders, and

... some gun maker wisely marketing the shorter carbines as "more convenient" to hunters who already owned the longer rifles.
 
if you factor in a horse, you will appreciate that a short barrel doesn't take all day to pull from a scabbard- and how many other actions do you see on horseback-?- it's the rare man that hunts on horseback with a bolt, semi or pump
 
I would say that carbines have risen in popularity because of smokeless gun powder. You can get better velocities with shorter barrels. Lighter and handier - it really makes a lot more sense.
 
I know that in Quebec, at one point the geniuses in conservation made a reg. that ended up making calibers like the 44.40, 45.70 ect illegal to use for hunting. I can't remember what the exact rule was, but that ended up being a consequence. At that point my Father and Uncle were using 44.40s.
Then they came up with the buck only rule.
They ended up buying Rem. 7600s' for the close-to-lever-speed shots and so they could mount a scope on them to see what's growing out of the deers' head.
I'll ask the Old Man the details on the 'over 40 cal' thing. This rule has been withdrawn now, but at the time they considered them 'not powerful enough' for deer.:bangHead:
 
Here's one of my Dad, taken I believe, in the late 30's or early 40's and somewhere in the vacinity of Lake of the Woods Ontario. I'm not sure on exactly what the rifle is. I found the photo in an old box of 'items' I after he passed away.

Dadhunting1930s.jpg


Here's another I have is of a couple I knew in the Barkerville area, Joe and Betty Wendle, this taken also in the late 30's or 40's. Mrs. Wendle was well known for her exploits hunting Grizzly using a model 99 Savage in 22 Savage High-Power. I recall seeing a number of her trophys in their home.

MrMrsJoeWendle.jpg
 
... Getting the most out of Powders of the Day, tended to favor the Longer Barrels. Add to the mix, most of the Military used actual Rifles, not Carbines, and then 'Scopes were not so readily available, and certainly left a lot to be desired when it came to durability and cost. Therefore to gain the most accuracy from both the Rifles and Powder, the longer sight radius made the most of what was available! ..... David K
 
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Winnipeg Toymaker said:
When studying the guns in the first picture, it is evident that there are at least 2 carbines as they have the barrel bands not the forearm cap.
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You are correct. I used that pic because it was the only group photo with guns that I have. I have a bunch of other photos of various single hunters, always with rifles in-hand; like this one:

Retrievedeerlater.jpg
 
Like has been said, the long barrels were a hangover from black powder days. Many of these old guys grew up in the tail end of that period and were subject to the predjudices of the day. One advantage not mentioned for longer barrels is longer sight radius and steadier holding for offhand shooting. Some guys will even tell you today that a 30 inch shotgun barrel will hit harder than a 26 inch barrel. When in fact a shotgun shot column reaches max. velocity in less than 20 inches of barrel. Another hangover from black powder times. The only way to get more power was to burn more powder, the only way to burn more powder in the same bore diameter was to lengthen the barrel. My 2 cents.
 
blasted_saber said:
Must be your thing, as all the levers at my camp are still rifles, unless im mistaken.
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You're not exactly mistaken. However, most people who refer to a Win 1894, for example, as a "Rifle model" mean the 26-inch barreled version, usually made with a nosecap and crescent buttplate. The carbines are the 20-inch barreled models much more common today.
 
Kilo Charlie said:
You're not exactly mistaken. However, most people who refer to a Win 1894, for example, as a "Rifle model" mean the 26-inch barreled version, usually made with a nosecap and crescent buttplate. The carbines are the 20-inch barreled models much more common today.
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Haha, thats why i threw in the "unless im mistaken" part. I was actually wondering if their was an exception such as that, but was just too lazy to look it up so early.

That being said, out of the Win 94s in camp, the one I have is the "20 inch rifle" which form what you are saying should technically be considered a carbine, despite it not being labeled one.

The other in camp is more modern Win 94, from just before Winchester stopped making them. Its a 44mag and has a pistol grip and nosecap.

The only other levers I can think of are BLRs.
 
Alright, I see the op was talking barrel length? But the Old Man send the Quebec story, so here it is in his words. Some of the older guys from La Belle Province might remember this:

Back before metric measurement came in, probably in the early 70's or
thereabouts the Quebec government relying on the advice of "very
knowledge firearms advisors" decided that any calibre below a certain
velocity was useless for hunting deer and similar size. So they banned
firearms like .38-55, any of the .25's, the .44-40 and a number of other
older deer, etc. hunting rounds. Taboo, verbotten, never to be used again.
BUT, along comes the wonders of metric (the only good it did) and
suddenly you can have a .44-40 (about 11mm) a .38-55 (somewhere about
just under 10mm) and all those .25's wherein fall many of the metric
designated high end rounds so wonder of wonders the .44-40 and all those
other useless old rounds appear in the good books because of their
metric size and not because of their velocity.
Governments can work miracles to make old things new again. Enjoy
the end.
You can tell he was impressed by the Gov., eh?:D
 
Wonderful pictures and I love all levers ,no matter the configuration, I had a 38-55 rifle with the 1/2 mag too and it shot like "hot Da**". The hunters of Yore used what was available to them and made them part of history. If only they could talk.
 
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