Light Magnum 30/06

[woodchopper]

I have a little concern with the whole 'light magnum' aspect.

I have picked up 30-06 cases on the range that one of the club members had "handloaded for performance" (his words) the primers were very flat and mushroom shaped and the primer pockets were visibly stretched out. I've never seen cases in such bad shape, obviously there was no way the shooter was going to get more then one use out of those cases so that's why they were discarded.

just saying don't be that guy.

 

[Fox]

I have a little concern with the whole 'light magnum' aspect.

I have picked up 30-06 cases on the range that one of the club members had "handloaded for performance" (his words) the primers were very flat and mushroom shaped and the primer pockets were visibly stretched out. I've never seen cases in such bad shape, obviously there was no way the shooter was going to get more then one use out of those cases so that's why they were discarded.

just saying don't be that guy.

Oh no, don't worry, not going to ever go over what is safe.

I have seen some pistol brass with primers that were one with the brass and almost no headstamp left, no freaking way I will do anything like that.

"Handloaded for performance" to me means the best group within safe pressures and with tolerances. I do not like to push the envelope.

I was wondering mainly about what others had been running because I did not want to get into a dangerous situation. I loaded for another 30/06 and the velocity was well over factory Remington ammo with the same bullet weight, I was a couple grains down from max and no pressure signs at all. The gun was a pump too and no issues extracting, just a beautiful 7/8in group at 100 yards with a 180gr BTSP bullet. The velocity I was getting was in the ballpark of what others were getting with that powder, so I knew I was not doing anything stupid, even though I had been checking and double checking as I went. I am using this as sort of a fact checker for the bullet and powder based on similar experiences. If these guys had said they were all running well under the book velocity with no pressure signs I would take that into consideration when working up the load but it seems the book is pretty close to dead on to real world barrels in most cases.

 

[woodchopper]

Oh no, don't worry, not going to ever go over what is safe.

I have seen some pistol brass with primers that were one with the brass and almost no headstamp left, no freaking way I will do anything like that.

"Handloaded for performance" to me means the best group within safe pressures and with tolerances. I do not like to push the envelope.

I was wondering mainly about what others had been running because I did not want to get into a dangerous situation. I loaded for another 30/06 and the velocity was well over factory Remington ammo with the same bullet weight, I was a couple grains down from max and no pressure signs at all. The gun was a pump too and no issues extracting, just a beautiful 7/8in group at 100 yards with a 180gr BTSP bullet. The velocity I was getting was in the ballpark of what others were getting with that powder, so I knew I was not doing anything stupid, even though I had been checking and double checking as I went. I am using this as sort of a fact checker for the bullet and powder based on similar experiences. If these guys had said they were all running well under the book velocity with no pressure signs I would take that into consideration when working up the load but it seems the book is pretty close to dead on to real world barrels in most cases.

yes there is hot and then there is HOT

I have my 300WM load for 200grn Accubonds at 2960FPS and that's using 0.3grn over book max but to keep the jump at about 0.03" I am seated much longer then spec, no pressure signs and I have some cases on their 5th reload and the primer pockets are still tight.

Just work it up safely.

Cheers.

 

[Potashminer]

If you want 300 Win Mag performance, get a 300 Win Mag. Just looked in Nosler #7 manual for 30-06 - two loads beat 2,800 fps with 180's; three loads over 2,600 with 200 grain (24" barrels). For 300 Win Mag, 6 loads 3,100 with 180 and 4 loads over 2,900 with 200 grains (also with 24" barrels). If you want to be "between" get a longer 26" 30-06 or a 300 H&H or a 308 Norma. Writer John Barsness is big fan of 200 grain Partition in "dark timber" - check out the ballistic tables - adequate speed for design bullet expansion (1,800 fps) pretty much to 500 yards (2,600 MV).

 

[Fox]

yes there is hot and then there is HOT

I have my 300WM load for 200grn Accubonds at 2960FPS and that's using 0.3grn over book max but to keep the jump at about 0.03" I am seated much longer then spec, no pressure signs and I have some cases on their 5th reload and the primer pockets are still tight.

Just work it up safely.

Cheers.

Exactly. This Parker Hale is based on a 98 Mauser so I have to work with the magazine length, I assume I will have more jump than ideal but this is a repeater. If you bump out the bullet you will have more volume and therefore less pressure with all other things being equal.

If you want 300 Win Mag performance, get a 300 Win Mag. Just looked in Nosler #7 manual for 30-06 - two loads beat 2,800 fps with 180's; three loads over 2,600 with 200 grain (24" barrels). For 300 Win Mag, 6 loads 3,100 with 180 and 4 loads over 2,900 with 200 grains (also with 24" barrels). If you want to be "between" get a longer 26" 30-06 or a 300 H&H or a 308 Norma. Writer John Barsness is big fan of 200 grain Partition in "dark timber" - check out the ballistic tables - adequate speed for design bullet expansion (1,800 fps) pretty much to 500 yards (2,600 MV).

I am not trying to get 300WM velocity, I think you just clicked to the end and wrote something. I am simply looking at what others have been getting with safe pressures as a guide. I do not want to shoot over 2700fps, the faster you go the more meat damage. If you are shooting at 500 yards then sure, use a 300 WM but closer in you are hitting with an impact speed that will cause extensive meat damage to areas that the bullet does not even come in contact with. I want to impact the game with less than 2700fps of velocity, ideally around 2500fps. Based on the Hornady calculators the 200gr NP starting out at 2550fps should keep 1800fps to open up out to 450 yards, well over what I ever intend to use it.

 

[Fox]

Did some test seating for the mag and the rifle today, not a long throat on this one. The 200gr I can seat down to 3.34in and it will go into the mag and cycle. The Hornady 220gr bullet seats much deeper, to the cannelure, or 3.21in to get it to chamber without crashing into the rifling. So I suspect I will be able to get slightly faster than the book numbers for the 200gr and slightly slower for the 220gr RN, just due to the change in case volume.

This is just an indicator though, nothing hard and fast with this.

 

[Fox]

Finally had a chance to test these out. I went with load data from Hodgdon, they have data for the 200gr Accubond with H4831, I ran from 55-59gr and there is a little flattening on the case at 59 but not a flat case that is for sure.

The wind was wicked, so the groups are not something I was worried about but under 1.5in with the 55gr load and right around 2in with the 59gr load. The crazy part to me is that based on the Hodgdon data my start velocity from the chronograph is the velocity of the max load and at the 59gr load I measured 1 shot before the sun came out and screwed with things and it was over 2700fps.

Anyone else running 2700fps with the 3006 200gr Partition H4831 combo? Again, no pressure signs, aside from cocking the gun on opening there was no difficulty opening the bolt or excessively flat primers.

I am running Winchester brass with Win LR primers.

 

[bigedp51]

The SAAMI chamber pressure limitations are for the oldest and weakest action it will be fired in and max pressure for the 30-06 is 60,000 psi.

I always asked myself why can't the 30-06 be loaded to the same pressures as the .270 Winchester at 65,000 psi in a modern bolt action.

 

[Fox]

The SAAMI chamber pressure limitations are for the oldest and weakest action it will be fired in and max pressure for the 30-06 is 60,000 psi.

I always asked myself why can't the 30-06 be loaded to the same pressures as the .270 Winchester at 65,000 psi in a modern bolt action.

This is a Parker Hale with a 98 Mauser action.

I am not going above max but was surprised that my rifle was shooting a lot faster than the book said, yet my 6.5x55mm mauser shoots well under the book numbers. Just goes to know that every rifle is different eh.

I have read that you cannot fit enough H4831 into the case of a 30-06 to blow it up, I did not hear a crunch with 59gr but there is no shake to it either.

 

[Northman999]

I shoot 210 grain VLDs out of my sporterized US Model 1917 at a little over 2600 FPS and that is by far the deadliest 30-06 load I’ve ever used. The high BC of the VLD also OVERTAKES many factory 300 win mag 180 grain loads around 350 yards and the performance edge of this load only gets better further out. May be worth considering.

 

[Northman999]

This is a Parker Hale with a 98 Mauser action.

I am not going above max but was surprised that my rifle was shooting a lot faster than the book said, yet my 6.5x55mm mauser shoots well under the book numbers. Just goes to know that every rifle is different eh.

I have read that you cannot fit enough H4831 into the case of a 30-06 to blow it up, I did not hear a crunch with 59gr but there is no shake to it either.

I’ve found 4831 to suck in the 30-06 myself, and I’d have to agree on the load density part. Tried a few 4831 loads and my rifles regularly get AT LEAST 200 FPS slower than advertised. 4350 or RL-17 are way better.

 

[jethunter]

I’ve found 4831 to suck in the 30-06 myself, and I’d have to agree on the load density part. Tried a few 4831 loads and my rifles regularly get AT LEAST 200 FPS slower than advertised. 4350 or RL-17 are way better.

X2, H4831 with 180gr bullets was at least 200 fps slower than the Lyman manual predicted in several rifles.

But - 4831 might work better in '06 with 220 gr bullets OP is talking about.

 

[QueensHorseman]

I don't use the .30-06 much these days because moose are no longer available to me often but I still think its a wonderful caliber. I settled on IMR 4350 and either 180 grain Nosler partitions or the 190 Hornady BTSP years ago and can't imagine needing anything more but I applaud the powder and bullet gains in recent years so have at it. Temperature stability is more useful to me than extra velocity as anything past about 2600 fps gives me a 300 year range and will ensure a partition expands and digs deep. Perhaps if using a failsafe or barnes bullet, more velocity would be helpful but hunter accuracy is usually the biggest handicap at distance. I usually shoot a lighter cartridge now (6.5x55, .32 Special, or 7.62x39) and if I felt the need for something larger, I would likely load one of the same two bullets in my .300 H&H model 70 with loads just a bit beyond the '06. People who use the 200 grain noslers generally rave about them so I have no doubt they are awesome but the 180 grain partition almost always exited so I never felt the need for more. The only exception would be if hunting a larger bear in close or in large bear territory when packing meat. In those cases a larger bore such as the .45-70 or 9.3x62 with suitable loads would be comforting in my hands or in the tent at night time. Other than that, settle on a good '06 load and shoot straight.

 

[jethunter]

I don't use the .30-06 much these days because moose are no longer available to me often but I still think its a wonderful caliber. I settled on IMR 4350 and either 180 grain Nosler partitions or the 190 Hornady BTSP years ago and can't imagine needing anything more but I applaud the powder and bullet gains in recent years so have at it. Temperature stability is more useful to me than extra velocity as anything past about 2600 fps gives me a 300 year range and will ensure a partition expands and digs deep. Perhaps if using a failsafe or barnes bullet, more velocity would be helpful but hunter accuracy is usually the biggest handicap at distance. I usually shoot a lighter cartridge now (6.5x55, .32 Special, or 7.62x39) and if I felt the need for something larger, I would likely load one of the same two bullets in my .300 H&H model 70 with loads just a bit beyond the '06. People who use the 200 grain noslers generally rave about them so I have no doubt they are awesome but the 180 grain partition almost always exited so I never felt the need for more. The only exception would be if hunting a larger bear in close or in large bear territory when packing meat. In those cases a larger bore such as the .45-70 or 9.3x62 with suitable loads would be comforting in my hands or in the tent at night time. Other than that, settle on a good '06 load and shoot straight.

It's hard to describe the feeling one gets when you have 75lbs of bleeding moose meat strapped to you, and a big bear stands up in the scrub brush 15 yds out.

 

[Suther]

IMO the 3006 gives up too much velocity with the 200+gr bullets. A 180gr pill will give you flatter trajectory and will reliably take any game in North America except bison while still providing plenty of weight for penetration. My understanding of bears is they are susceptible to shock and thus more velocity is typically a good thing (source: a well respected guide who used to guide costal grizzly in BC until the hunt was closed)

 

[Fox]

IMO the 3006 gives up too much velocity with the 200+gr bullets. A 180gr pill will give you flatter trajectory and will reliably take any game in North America except bison while still providing plenty of weight for penetration. My understanding of bears is they are susceptible to shock and thus more velocity is typically a good thing (source: a well respected guide who used to guide costal grizzly in BC until the hunt was closed)

There you have it, this rifle is being setup for a trip north to hunt with a friend, for Yukon Moose and or Bison. I think that 2550fps is enough to stop them. I don't like high speed bullets anyway, they tend to gel a lot of meat that does not need to be wasted. I will take a 30-30 at close range over a 270 Win any day of the week, 3000fps impact speed is too fast for most bullets out there and I have no plan to switch to Barnes.

 

[jethunter]

There you have it, this rifle is being setup for a trip north to hunt with a friend, for Yukon Moose and or Bison. I think that 2550fps is enough to stop them. I don't like high speed bullets anyway, they tend to gel a lot of meat that does not need to be wasted. I will take a 30-30 at close range over a 270 Win any day of the week, 3000fps impact speed is too fast for most bullets out there and I have no plan to switch to Barnes.

The "Dangerous Game" cartridges were quite often built around a heavy for caliber bullet in the 2400-2500 fps mv range. That is not by accident.

A 30-06 loaded with 220 gr bullets is a specialty cartridge. Drop off will be early and fast but if you're shooting under 150 yds that doesn't matter. I prefer a 180gr as my heavy bullet in a 30-06 but I wouldn't feel too badly hindered by a 200 gr either, especially the excellent partition bullet and more so if I was after bison.

 

[Fox]

The "Dangerous Game" cartridges were quite often built around a heavy for caliber bullet in the 2400-2500 fps mv range. That is not by accident.

A 30-06 loaded with 220 gr bullets is a specialty cartridge. Drop off will be early and fast but if you're shooting under 150 yds that doesn't matter. I prefer a 180gr as my heavy bullet in a 30-06 but I wouldn't feel too badly hindered by a 200 gr either, especially the excellent partition bullet and more so if I was after bison.

The numbers on the 200gr are surprising, if you still do the "sight in at 100 yards" deal then the drop off will seem more extreme but I have started sighting in for Maximum Point Blank Range, this minimizes my perceived loss of range greatly. The 220gr bullet is not meant to be a long distance one but rather to hit like the hammer of thor in close.

 

[jethunter]

The numbers on the 200gr are surprising, if you still do the "sight in at 100 yards" deal then the drop off will seem more extreme but I have started sighting in for Maximum Point Blank Range, this minimizes my perceived loss of range greatly. The 220gr bullet is not meant to be a long distance one but rather to hit like the hammer of thor in close.

I agree with that. I see nothing inherently wrong with 220gr in 30-06 and that's why I made the comment about the dangerous game cartridges.

 

[Suther]

The numbers on the 200gr are surprising, if you still do the "sight in at 100 yards" deal then the drop off will seem more extreme but I have started sighting in for Maximum Point Blank Range, this minimizes my perceived loss of range greatly. The 220gr bullet is not meant to be a long distance one but rather to hit like the hammer of thor in close.

Velocity gives you DRT results, not heavy and slow. (unless you hit the central nervous system, but I don't take spine/head shots)