Live round stuck in breech...

Autolite said:
The grease creates a 'hydraulic lock' with the pressure being evenly applied to the entire surface area. Using just a rod could cause the bullet itself to press back down into the brass case possibly twisting and making the jam even worse...
Click to expand...
Interesting hypothesis. Just thinking out loud, I would think that any cartridge stuck tight enough to require this amount of force will shove the bullet into the case with or without grease and if using grease or oil, I could possibly see the grease/oil entering the case (after the bullet is shoved into the case allowing the fluid to pass) and then the pressure would be distributed to the sides of the case as well as pushing the case back and could make the case more stuck. I dunno interesting to think about, just hope I never have to learn anecdotally. 😁 cheers.
 
Licensed to kill said:
I could possibly see the grease/oil entering the case (after the bullet is shoved into the case allowing the fluid to pass) and then the pressure would be distributed to the sides of the case as well as pushing the case back and could make the case more stuck.
Click to expand...
Nope, that doesn't happen. Pressure is released via the path of least resistance. It always pushes the case backwards out of the chamber.

When I had to do it, the release was surprisingly soft, considering how much force we had tried to pound it out with. In my case, it was an AR barrel we were working on, so I just turned up a fitting to screw onto the muzzle threads, into which we screwed a zirk fitting. Fill barrel to the very top w water (much less messy than oil), screw muzzle fitting on. Attach grease gun and pump a couple of times. Voila, case pushed out nice n gentle.

Hitting a rod, sitting on top of a not quite sealed oil chamber, with a hammer is just silliness. You had best be wearing some good eye protection and clothes you don't mind getting sprayed with oil.
 
Licensed to kill said:
Interesting hypothesis. Just thinking out loud, I would think that any cartridge stuck tight enough to require this amount of force will shove the bullet into the case with or without grease and if using grease or oil, I could possibly see the grease/oil entering the case (after the bullet is shoved into the case allowing the fluid to pass) and then the pressure would be distributed to the sides of the case as well as pushing the case back and could make the case more stuck. I dunno interesting to think about, just hope I never have to learn anecdotally. 😁 cheers.
Click to expand...
In the video posted, exactly this happened, except it pushed out the primer. Surprisingly, afterwards, the cartridge still popped out with immense force and dented the drywall.
 
Autolite said:
theshootist asked for ideas. I told him what worked for me. I am not here to argue about it. He can decide for himself what to do...
Click to expand...
Except it didn't work for you because you never tried it on a rifle barrel, which is completely different from the wheel bearing you did try it with. 🤷‍♂️

Once again .... make sure you understand the issue BEFORE spouting off. :rolleyes:
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Except it didn't work for you because you never tried it on a rifle barrel, which is completely different from the wheel bearing you did try it with. 🤷‍♂️

Once again .... make sure you understand the issue BEFORE spouting off. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
It wasn't a wheel bearing. It was a roller type pilot bearing for the transmission input shaft inside the aft end of an engine crankshaft. I made the suggestion because it was a method that I have tried and it worked. Once again .... theshootist can just take it FWIW and decide for himself what to do.
 
Last edited:
I Dont Care About You said:
Nope, that doesn't happen. Pressure is released via the path of least resistance. It always pushes the case backwards out of the chamber.

When I had to do it, the release was surprisingly soft, considering how much force we had tried to pound it out with. In my case, it was an AR barrel we were working on, so I just turned up a fitting to screw onto the muzzle threads, into which we screwed a zirk fitting. Fill barrel to the very top w water (much less messy than oil), screw muzzle fitting on. Attach grease gun and pump a couple of times. Voila, case pushed out nice n gentle.

Hitting a rod, sitting on top of a not quite sealed oil chamber, with a hammer is just silliness. You had best be wearing some good eye protection and clothes you don't mind getting sprayed with oil.
Click to expand...
Using a grease gun is not the same as and is not what the post I was referring to suggested. The suggestion made was to fill with grease and use a rod and hammer to punch the case out. My question was what advantage that would have over just a rod like gun tech suggested. Useing a grease gun is a whole nuther thing all together. So, regarding the use of a grease gun, yes, that would work well IF you have a threaded muzzle which the vast majority of guns do not have.
 
remove bolt and scope......put dry ice on the chamber ......good contact.........tap from muzzel end with good ram rod after 20 or so seconds......repeat if needed but not till barrel is room temp ..........the idea is to change situation using the brass vs steel reaction in the composition and the different expantion times................ good luck don
 
I'm away off shore at the moment, I won't be home for awhile to mess with this disaster.

I've done a bit of searching on YouTube myself and read in the comments about putting the barrel in the deep freeze over night, then briefly warming up the barrel before attempting to force out the mess I've created.

After putting some Kroil down the barrel I've already foolishly tried dropping a good fiberglass cleaning rod onto the loaded round to see if it would budge but no luck. I think I might have already used enough force to push the bullet back into the case. Very unsettling.
I was thinking of pouring some water down in there to hopefully foul the powder/primer (if the bullet went in that far) then use Guntech's advice with the steel rod.

From memory the cartridge is a full length sized, 308 Win with 44gr Varget under a 168gr Hornaday A-max bullet.

Before I do anything, and when I finally get back to civilization I'll call Ron Hendrickson. I've used his services before for other gunsmithing. If he can offer a quick turnaround I'll likely go see him first.

Strange how it happened. I shot a nice 3 round group, then I couldn't chamber a 4th.
I removed that round, and chambered it into another gun. I repeated this with 3 or 4 additional rounds, all successfully chambered in the second rifle. I could not see anything obstructing the problem rifle with bolt removed.

I got impatient and chambered a round in hard, which is where I (and that round) got stuck. Typical for myself to learn the hard way, of course right before hunting season.

If I use the steel rod method, that would put the smokeless powder under a lot of pressure. What I'd like to know is will smokeless powder detonate under a crushing pressure?

Hopefully others will learn from my silly mistakes.
 
Last edited:
Just for the sake of comparison and clarity, check out this video on how to remove a pilot bearing using grease. When I did this, I used a scrap piece of transmission input shaft as a 'ram rod'. It was easy to do and it worked quite well...

Remove Your Pilot Bearing Like a Pro: The Grease Technique!​


 
theshootist said:
Hopefully others will learn from my silly mistakes.
Click to expand...
If all else fails or if you're worried about damaging the rifling, you can always just take it to an experienced gunsmith. That is your 'worst case scenario' which really isn't all that bad when you think about it...
 
Last edited:
I would wear goggles and leather gloves when handling this problem. I would also try to solve it without the bolt in place.

If it fire the bullet out of battery, they can be a big problem. If the bullet is stuck and it launches the brass out the back of the action, it’s not as big of a problem because the brass doesn’t weigh much and has no barrel to increase resistance or velocity.

I like the cleaning rod method first.
 
Dave_D said:
Terrible advice. We don’t know why or what is causing it to not close.
IMO Your method could potentially lead to a massive pressure spike causing damage to the firearm and or shooter.
Click to expand...
I would take it into my back yard, point it at the ground, close the bolt and pull the trigger. Then turn the bolt to c0ck it again and pull the trigger again. What is unsafe about that?
 
Autolite said:
Or perhaps just try packing the barrel with grease and using some sort of metal ramrod* (and a hammer) to force out the jammed round. That's an old mechanic's trick to force out a seized bearing (the grease creates a 'hydraulic lock'). And I've also found that the best 'penetrating oil' is just a simple 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Good luck...

(*You should be able to find the correct size of metal rod that you would need at any hardware store)
Click to expand...
That’s how you get a pilot bearing out of a flywheel (pilot bore in the back of a crankshaft). Fill the whole cavity with grease. Get a wooden dowel that fits, wrap it with electrical tape until it fits perfectly then pound it in with a hammer and the bushing should come me right out
 
I Dont Care About You said:
You should definitely try that and see how it goes. :rolleyes:

I find it best to NOT give out advice you don't understand. 🤷‍♂️

FWIW grease doesn't work because it is basically impossible to totally fill the bore with thick grease without leaving air bubbles and pockets that will compress under pressure. It has to be oil.



The description of this method as "messy" is a wild understatement. When the metal rod is whacked, oil will spurt out of the muzzle at high velocity. The thing about the mechanics of this method is your head and face will naturally be right above the muzzle when you hit the rod. Give that idea a minute to sink in ............. 🤷‍♂️

Oh and let's not forget, that jamming a close fitting steel rod into the rifling and then whacking it with a hammer is probably not going to do the rifling any good.
Click to expand...
Buddy has clearly never done a clutch job on a Camaro
 
guntech said:
The powder will not ignite while the case is being driven out.
Click to expand...
theshootist said:
If I use the steel rod method, that would put the smokeless powder under a lot of pressure. What I'd like to know is will smokeless powder detonate under a crushing pressure?
Click to expand...

If you crush it hard enough and fast enough you will create friction which can ignite any powder (black powder is impact sensitive - however that is not the case here)
What is the probability? Extremely low but not zero - also consider primers are designed to be sensitive to impact - again, extremely low but not zero hence, the 'zero impact' grease method.

Now, this is a little late in asking, but you got the bolt out without the cartridge - was the extractor engaged? i.e. did you have trouble getting the bolt out because the extractor was engaged on the cartridge rim?

- examine your extractor for damage
- examine the rim where the extractor engages the cartridge rim looking for damage

I ask because if the extractor was not 'grabbing' the rim of the cartridge it would explain not being able to close the bolt that last millimetre or two.
I would expect damage to the cartridge rim if you had to reef the bolt out.

I don't know the design of your bolt/extractor so that is a guess and a long shot - but if that sounds like the case - I would get the bolt back in there, ensure the extractor is engaged and give the bolt handle a smart rap ('smart rap' don't haul off and reef on it) with a wooden mallet, block of wood etc.

and as I mentioned previously - this is still the dangerous end ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom