Loaded or unloaded?

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moose1987

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I have hunted with a muzzle loader for a couple of years now but just a day here or a day there. This year i am hunting every afternoon for 5 days. My question is do i completey unload pulling powder and bullet or at the end of the night just pull the primer. And if i do keep it loaded i am worried about condensation. Bringing it in from outside while hunting into a warm camp. What do yall do.

Moose
 
I don't think I would be confident enough that it would go off when I needed it to if it had the same charge in it after sitting overnight. The condensation issue is a valid concern.

That said, it probably depends on the load. Real black powder with a lubed patch or conical and #11 cap or a modern sealed ignition system with a synthetic powder and a sabot?
 
this was discussed a while back and I always thought it was ok to remove the cap but I was informed that under the firearms law it is considered loaded. It's a PITA to unload a muzzleloader each time you come back from hunting as it is a tedious chore and firing it means you are going to be cleaning it.
 
I'm not a muzzle loader, but I've seen some pretty extreme amounts of condensation on my rifles after bringing them in from the cold into a warm cabin, especially when you're cooking in the cabin.

I think the solution is just to shoot a trophy sized game animal every day on your way back to camp. Yup.
 
stevejones said:
this was discussed a while back and I always thought it was ok to remove the cap but I was informed that under the firearms law it is considered loaded. It's a PITA to unload a muzzleloader each time you come back from hunting as it is a tedious chore and firing it means you are going to be cleaning it.
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Read your provincial hunting regulations. For Sask., remove the cap or primer - not considered loaded even with powder and bullet in the tube. Your province might be different.
 
You say "camp". Does that mean you are driving back and forth from your hunting location, or are you camping in the area and hiking to your hunting spot? To avoid the condensation on my guns when I hunt from home I don't bring the guns inside. Just lock 'em in the trunk of a dead car in my yard.

This was with a bolt action, and I swapped the ammo out daily for fresh, but with a muzzleloader, I would leave the charge in the barrel and just swap out fresh caps every day.

I have one of those CO2 things that push out the charge, too. Worked great on my sidehammer, but haven't tried it on my inline. That's another option to keep in mind.
 
Cold gun from outside into warm camp; bad mojo.

But, if you were determined to not pull the load and bring it inside I would slip a piece of leather or rubber between the hammer and nipple, store it barrel down and after an hour or so run a patch into the barrel to absorb any condensation. Another consideration is any spaces where condensation could form and cause issues down the road (freezing next day or rust in some hidden spot).

All in all, best to leave it outside whether or not you unload. kodiakjack has the ideal solution.
 
My gun stays loaded, powder and ball, cap removed, maybe a piece of patch over the nipple if damp out. Either outside or in the truck sometimes for two or three days during the hunt if I don't get a shot, after 3 days I touch her off just cause. Never bring it into a warm camp or truck as yes condensation is not your friend and it does not have to be visible to wet the powder.

This is what the old boys taught me and it has never failed from cap and ball guns to the modern inlines. Ontario hunting regs are uncapped, unloaded. The FA never makes sense anyhow LOL
 
I hate to ask a question in response to a thread, but I as well leave the powder and bullet in for a few days, but leave it in the garage so it doesn't warm up. Primer gets taken out when I leave the stand. Mid week I will empty and throw out the powder, but my question is, can you re-use the sabot and bullet? Seeing as there are marks from the rifling on the sabot?
 
Cletus said:
I hate to ask a question in response to a thread, but I as well leave the powder and bullet in for a few days, but leave it in the garage so it doesn't warm up. Primer gets taken out when I leave the stand. Mid week I will empty and throw out the powder, but my question is, can you re-use the sabot and bullet? Seeing as there are marks from the rifling on the sabot?
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Just shot a nice spike horn buck this afternoon with a sabot and bullet that had been loaded once before, gun went bang and deer fell over!
 
There are several issues here: Legal? Safe? Corrosion problem? Reliability of a charge when you've got the animal in your sights? Accuracy of the shot when you've got the animal in your sights?

I don't shoot muzzleloader anymore but I would go with one of those CO2 things that clears it out for you. Depending on what you are hunting and how much effort goes into actually getting a shot and what range you are shooting at, I'd seriously consider cleaning the darn thing each night too (just talking a field cleaning, not a total takedown cleaning)

The last thing you want is to spend a whole day out there and get ONE shot at the animal and then either gun don't go bang or projectile goes wobbly and totally off POA.
 
moose1987 said:
...do I completely unload pulling powder and bullet or at the end of the night just pull the primer. And if I do keep it loaded...(should I be)...worried about...(being arrested)?
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unloaded, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm. (non chargée)

<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-1.html#h-1>

5 (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-1.html#h-1>
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8 An individual may display a non-restricted firearm only if it

(a) is unloaded;

<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-2.html#docCont>
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10 (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and

(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.

<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-2.html#docCont>
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In BC you can transport the gun with a charge in it as long as the lock is removed and primer removed in the case of percussion guns. Once you reach pavement, federal law takes over and nothing in the barrel. From a practical standpoint, I did keep a percussion rifle with a charge in it for about 3 days while camped in a tent. While back in camp, the primer was removed and a piece of leather was held on the nipple by the hammer. On the third day I decided to fire the gun and reload and the charge definitely seemed weaker than it should have been. Maybe I just had some oil in the bottom of the barrel before I loaded

cheers mooncoon
 
ON hunting regulations allow a ml to be transported from hunting location to hunting location with the barrel charged, but no priming or flint. Don't know how that would apply to loading up the truck and driving for an hour. Don't know how comfortable I would be reinstalling a flint in a gun with a loaded barrel.
When the gun is loaded the only moisture which could conceivably condense in the charge is the moisture that was there when the gun was loaded. Blackpowder is densely packed; can't see how there could be enough moisture already in the charge to make any difference. Go from cold to warm, to cold, condensation in the barrel would freeze. Frozen ice droplets in the bore might be bad.

Guns with the priming removed have fired. It is possible for a flintlock to fire without priming in the pan. A spark can, on occasion, reach the charge, particularly if the touch hole is on the large side. Extremely rare, but has happened. When a firmly seated cap is removed, the chemical priming pellet can be left behind. Accidents have occurred, both in the 1800s and more recently.

A ml with a charged barrel must be treated with great respect. And forgetting that there is a charge has lead to many mishaps.
 
I reuse pushed bullet/sabots for target practice and they function fine. I trust in new for hunting and my bullet/sabot combo is running $2.50 a shot without powder at the moment. Don't recommend it but I have seen more frugal(cheap, dirt cheap) shooters recycle sabots from off the ground and they function, not to my standards but they will work. Funny as heck though to watch one of these folks try and figure out how I am shooting 357 bullets from a 50or 54 though and those orange sabots are so easy to find on the ground
 
I have left my tc impact loaded for 3 weeks while hunting with no problems at all. I usually shoot the load out after the 3 weeks just to make sure there is not going to be a problem and reload again till I get a shot at a deer. I live in a somewhat damp area near the ocean.
 
I'm the guy that had the BC Hunting regs amended to allow the transport of ML rifles in a hunting environment charged, but not primed. I was President of the Canadian Black Powder Federation at the time.
I was a flint shooter, and it did not occur to me to include anything regarding the likelihood of a flintlock being capable of discharge without the pan being primed. I knew better, but was comfortable carrying a unprimed rifle and when dealing with bureaucrats, simple is good. Time wise, I saw no difference between priming the pan and placing a cap on the nipple of a percussion rifle. An flintlock being transported with an unprimed pan and uncocked hammer is no more likely to fire than an unprimed, uncocked percussion rifle.

The "hindsight geniuses" immediately jumped all over me and I suggested what I'm suggesting now - if you don't like it, contact the government and ask for an amendment. You will likely be told that henceforth you will be required to remove the flint from the lock or have a mandatory cover over the frizzen, which most smart flinters have been doing for the past few hundred years.
 
Sharps '63 said:
I'm the guy that had the BC Hunting regs amended to allow the transport of ML rifles in a hunting environment charged, but not primed. I was President of the Canadian Black Powder Federation at the time.
I was a flint shooter, and it did not occur to me to include anything regarding the likelihood of a flintlock being capable of discharge without the pan being primed. I knew better, but was comfortable carrying a unprimed rifle and when dealing with bureaucrats, simple is good. Time wise, I saw no difference between priming the pan and placing a cap on the nipple of a percussion rifle. An flintlock being transported with an unprimed pan and uncocked hammer is no more likely to fire than an unprimed, uncocked percussion rifle.

The "hindsight geniuses" immediately jumped all over me and I suggested what I'm suggesting now - if you don't like it, contact the government and ask for an amendment. You will likely be told that henceforth you will be required to remove the flint from the lock or have a mandatory cover over the frizzen, which most smart flinters have been doing for the past few hundred years.
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I'm in BC so I thank you. I think with all of these issues, some common sense needs to be exercised as with all things in life. "Yes, please don't lick the running chainsaw":HR:
 
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