Loading for ruger#1 303 British

Previously there was mention made of loads using the 215gr bullets. I picked up a quantity from Corlanes in Dawson creek and I did find a few sources of reload data for them.
  • P.O. Ackleys volume I, Handbook For Shooters & Reloaders
  • Ken Waters Pet Loads
  • The 303british.com website
The loads were developed wsing an assortment of 303's such as the
  • Lee Enfield
  • Lee Metford
  • 95 Winchester and
  • P-14
to mention a few so how applicable the loads will be for the No. 1, hard to say but it would be a starting point. Also, from the data on the 303british.com site, the bullet used was "Made by Remington and CIL of Canada but no more".
 
TCBF said:
-Silly question, but what diameter are the bullets, and is the Ruger barrel a 'tight' 312?
Click to expand...

I don't have any immediate plans of getting a No. 1 in 303Br. but because of the wide variation of bore diameters, I was curious as to what a modern manufacturer would bring them out as. I sort of assumed it would be 0.311" but I thought I'd contact Ruger On-Line Customer Support, in an effort to satisfy my curiosity. Here's rhe resopnse I received this morning.

scan0008.jpg


To quote Archie Bunker, "Help me Lord!".
Their response:
.303 Br. bore diameter is .303.
Ya right:rolleyes:, I think I'll phone.
 
Just had a phone call up date with Ruger tech department on my data question on the Ruger No. 1 in 303 Br. The barrel details I got are as follows;
  • 6 groove.
  • 1 - 10 twist.
  • Bore diameter, 0.303" - 0.305".
  • Groove diameter, 0.314" - 0.316".
 
46gr of H4895 and the 150gr TSX is giving me 2 shots close together, then one shot out about 1.5".

I can live with that for now....I rarely shoot more than once or twice at an animal anyway, and 1.5MOA is fine for a hunting rifle. However, like any gun nut, I want to see what I else the rifle can do.

I wasn't able to figure out how to get the scans any bigger so I will PM you my mailing address, thanks
 
It's not necessarilly a bedding issue, lots of #1's exhibit this 2 together and the rest a bit farther out type of grouping.
It was explained the quarter rib scope rail is to blame. As the barrel warms the rail will distort a bit and start moving things around.

Try 2 shots and let it cool completely, the try 2 more, coll it down then 2 more, if you get a nice tight 6 shot group, go hunt it.
 
Hello. Thanks for all the great info.

I have been hunting with my 303 for 23 yrs now (No 4 Mk2 sporterized version made in 1952). I reload for all my other rifles and am going to start for this rifle as I have owned and hunted with many other wiz bang rifles, but they are not as cool as the 303. Actually, now all I am hunting with is my 303 and my Savage 24-V single shot 30-30 / 20 gauge (a black bear with the 30-30 and a mulie with the 303 this year). Anyways, I digress, here are my questions:

1. Loading with IMR 4350 (as stated previous in the thread), I am seeing charges from 45.5 to 50 grains. I would like to load some 174 / 180 grain bullets in it, is 45 grains safe to start with my rifle?

2. Does anyone have any IMR 4350 data for a 150 grain bullet?

3. Where are you guys buying the Ruger #1's? I have looked and can't find any in 303.

Thanks a ton guys.

Jim
 
Gatehouse said:
46gr of H4895 and the 150gr TSX is giving me 2 shots close together, then one shot out about 1.5".

I can live with that for now....I rarely shoot more than once or twice at an animal anyway, and 1.5MOA is fine for a hunting rifle. However, like any gun nut, I want to see what I else the rifle can do.

I wasn't able to figure out how to get the scans any bigger so I will PM you my mailing address, thanks
Click to expand...

The hard copy will be in the mail tomorrow morning. In the meantime, remove the forend. Just for the hell of it, try shooting with the forend off resting/supporting the barrel the same for each shot.
 
270 short mag said:
3. Where are you guys buying the Ruger #1's? I have looked and can't find any in 303.
Click to expand...
Right here ......

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=518771

More reading .......

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412828

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446310
 
Johnn Peterson said:
The hard copy will be in the mail tomorrow morning. In the meantime, remove the forend. Just for the hell of it, try shooting with the forend off resting/supporting the barrel the same for each shot.
Click to expand...

Update:

It was too cool and frosty to go for my bike ride this morning, the package is on the way.

Why I mentioned removing the forend, that's how I 'accidently' found where the reason for inaccuracy in my No. 1 in 375 H&H was originating. IF this is where your accuracy problem is coming from, you should notice a definate improvement with the forend removed. If not, look for another cause, possibly an ammo and/or component related 'problem'.

In the info sent, the modifications to the forend hanger made considerable accuracy improvement to both my 375 H&H and my 22-250.
 
Maybe should try IMR4895. I used this powder in both my LE and MN. My MN made 1" grp of 2 shots at 100 m with just iron sight and carried enough power. I can't say for my LE as the gun was really old and the bore was worn. Both guns used 174 gr Hornady Interlock RN. I sold the LE, but the MN won't be on sale for sure.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Just had a phone call up date with Ruger tech department on my data question on the Ruger No. 1 in 303 Br. The barrel details I got are as follows;
  • 6 groove.
  • 1 - 10 twist.
  • Bore diameter, 0.303" - 0.305".
  • Groove diameter, 0.314" - 0.316".
Click to expand...

This agrees with my measured "slug" that I drove through the barrel of my #1A Ruger. Bore at .3032", groove at .3135" Regards, Eagleye.
 
Those are actually the original British military specs. P-14s were made in these dimensions, and this is one of the reasons why most reloads don't do too well in .303s.

FYI, about 15 years ago, I bought some surplus Belgian FN .303 ammo. With an old ratty P-14, I've literally cut cloverleafs at 200 metres using this ammo. It's shockingly accurate. When I pulled a cartridge apart and miked the bullet, can you guess what it measured? That's right: .314.

Imagine shooting a bullet that miked .305 out of your .308 or .30-06. How consistent would your accuracy be? That's what we've been doing for decades with our .303s when we use the standard bullets made in this calibre.

I'm just surprised that Ruger went with the original specs instead of assuming that modern shooters are going to be stuck with. 311 bullets.
 
Bevan King makes his 303 barrels to what one would expect: a .303 bore and .311 groove. That is no doubt why his 303 barrels shoot so well.

I see Shilen also makes their barrels the same. No doubt they shoot very well with .311 bullets. :)

Ted
 
p-17 said:
Wow, this is very interesting... it seems that the Ruger #1 has the bedding sensitivity of an SMLE, with similar problems with flyers.

Clarke, here is a load you may want to place in the back of your mind because I've found it to work well in pretty well every .303 I've ever tried, and this includes #1s and P-14s:

150-grain Hornady SP with IMR 4320.

In a #1, I use 45.0 grains of IMR 4320 and don't go any higher due to the limitations of the action. In fact, this load is actually even a bit on the warm side for a #1, but I have a pretty strong Lithgow action from the 1940s, so I can get away with it.

In a P-14, I generally find that something around 46.0 to 46.5 gives astonishing accuracy, but loading up to 47.5 is OK in the P-14s I've used and is basically a .308 load (within the IMR loading data for a .308). Velocity is what you would expect: very decent.

FYI, I've found that IMR 4320 is also superb with heavier bullets. It's basically my go-to powder for this cartridge.

These 150-grain IMR 4320 loads are basically the reference loads I use anytime I need to play with a .303 because if they don't work then something is wrong with the rifle or the scope.

I would certainly try this combination with the 150 TSX if I were playing with a brand-new #1.

The other thing I'd be curious about is the throat dimension that Ruger used to cut your chamber. I became especially aware of this issue when Bill Leeper rebarreled my SMLE with a .308 diameter barrel (using a .303 match reamer). In my case, the throat dimension was longer and fatter than the bearing surface of the bullet, and this played havoc whenever I tried to use short, boattailed bullets. It required me to use longer, straight-shanked bullets, like the 180 .30 cal partition. With such bullets, the rear end of the bullet is still being supported by the case mouth as the ogive engraves the rifling. With shorter BT bullets, the back end of the bullet had left the case mouth by the time the ogive engraved, and it was "wobbling" its way into the rifling.

Since the Barnes TSX is a long bullet, and the .303 version is a flat base, I would expect great things, as long as your Ruger throat is not unreasonably long.

Keep us informed of your progress!
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i have loaded a LOT of 303 in my lifetime, and im really suprised that only a few have tumbled on to the 4320 powder. it is also my " go to powder" for the 303. it will shoot in anything. i stumbled across years and years ago . 43.5 grains in a WW case with a 174
also,, i have found 760 to work almost as good
 
Here's what I do for my 303's, not only for my Ruger #1A:

1) Neck up brass to .358";
2) Neck back down using neck-size die until you can just close the lever;
3) Square primer pockets;
4) De-bur flash holes;
5) Square case mouths;
6) Debur case mouths;
7) Separate brass by weight into lots (my lot of brass, however, all weighs within 1.8 grains of each other);
8) Use same load I use for my commercial BSA sporters, ie:

Lapua brass (alas, long gone, but I have 400 new ones on hand) :)))
WLR primers (seated by hand with Lee hand Auto-Prime)
41.5-43.5 grains Reloader 15. (I found 2 sweet spots, 41.7 gr. & 43.5 grain & am doing more development to see which is better)
Lapua 174 grain SP bullets (alas, again long since discontinued)
Seated to achieve OAL of 3.1" using a Sinclair bullet comparator

I haven't yet tried my trick of inserting a rubber o-ring around the forend screw & then reinstalling it.

I'm not sure what the point of stoking up the loads is, even though the Ruger #1 action is more than capable of moving up by ~10,000 cup /psi / whatever other form of pressure measurement you choose to use, as the bullets of .309"-.314" are all meant to expand properly at .303 British velocities, except for the 123 grain offerings, meant for the 7.62x39 velocities. Push them too much above those levels (ie. above their design envelope) & you're going to find the bullets don't behave as designed or wanted. You'll turn them into varmint killers that don't penetrate properly. Want to try something similar. Load a 170 grain bullet designed for the 30-30 into a 308 Winchester case, loaded to ~55,000 psi & do a penetration test. Now do the same penetration test with the same bullet loaded into a 30-30 at the normal 30-30 velocities & see which one penetrates further & doesn't have a jacket / core separation.

On a related note, Hornady has brought out ammunition / bullets for all of the other old Ruger offerings (450/400N.E., 405 W.C.F., 450 N.E., etc.). Maybe if enough people ask, they might recommence production of their old .312" 215 grain bullet, which was discontinued shortly before I started handloading (~1975).
 
jamesharrison said:
I'm not sure what the point of stoking up the loads is, even though the Ruger #1 action is more than capable of moving up by ~10,000 cup /psi / whatever other form of pressure measurement you choose to use, as the bullets of .309"-.314" are all meant to expand properly at .303 British velocities, except for the 123 grain offerings, meant for the 7.62x39 velocities. Push them too much above those levels (ie. above their design envelope) & you're going to find the bullets don't behave as designed or wanted. You'll turn them into varmint killers that don't penetrate properly. Want to try something similar. Load a 170 grain bullet designed for the 30-30 into a 308 Winchester case, loaded to ~55,000 psi & do a penetration test. Now do the same penetration test with the same bullet loaded into a 30-30 at the normal 30-30 velocities & see which one penetrates further & doesn't have a jacket / core separation.
.
Click to expand...

A 150gr TSX is not going to blow up and not penetrate on a deer because you push it 200fps faster in a #1 than you do in a SMLE.:p;)
 
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