Long range bullets

Papaclaude

Papaclaude

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I'm looking to develop some hunting loads for long-range use (600+ yds) on black bear, for my 308. Typically, I use Nosler or Game king 165 gr. bullets, but I wonder if my bullets will be traveling fast enough to expand at that range. Would I be better with a bullet that expands quickly, like the Match King, to ensure proper expansion at those velocities? I would not be taking any shots at less than 600 yd.:confused:
 
Papaclaude said:
I'm looking to develop some hunting loads for long-range use (600+ yds) on black bear, for my 308. Typically, I use Nosler or Game king 165 gr. bullets, but I wonder if my bullets will be traveling fast enough to expand at that range. Would I be better with a bullet that expands quickly, like the Match King, to ensure proper expansion at those velocities? I would not be taking any shots at less than 600 yd.:confused:
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Maybe the Hornady SST.....Matchkings are not designed for hunting although some people seem to swear by them for just that......figure out how fast they are moving at 600 yards and verify against the bullets design evelope........(I usually email their technical dept.) .

I would tend to think that if a Gameking wont' open up at that range then nothing will (in your case) .
 
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"...600+ yds..." Too far unless you can hit a 9" pie plate, every time, at that distance. Sighted in at 200, a 165 will drop about 50" at 500. More at 600.
"...like the Match King..." Not made to expand at all.
 
Trying to shoot bears at 600 plus yards with your 308 is a perfect recipe for wounding bears.
At that distance your 308 will have about half the power of a 30-30 up close, and many out there think a 30-30 is light for black bear.
With a bear standing cross ways to you at 600 plus yards, you aim at his shoulder. If there is enough breeze that you can feel it on your cheek, your perfectly aimed bullet could hit him in the belly, or rear end.
 
Papaclaude said:
I'm looking to develop some hunting loads for long-range use (600+ yds) on black bear, for my 308. Typically, I use Nosler or Game king 165 gr. bullets, but I wonder if my bullets will be traveling fast enough to expand at that range. Would I be better with a bullet that expands quickly, like the Match King, to ensure proper expansion at those velocities? I would not be taking any shots at less than 600 yd.:confused:
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Please don't shoot living things with Matchkings in any caliber.
They're one of the best target bullets on the market but they are not a hunting bullet.
Years ago I shot coyotes with them out of a 22-250 and even some of them passed through like full metal jackets.

I think a lot of the wrecks some of these long range hunting show producers encounter end up cut out of their neat little 30 minute shows.
 
I think that given proper shot placement you're still OK at 600 with a 308 but you're pushing it. Something like a 165 Partition would be a good bullet provided it shoots well enough. Maybe an Accubond of comparable weight would shoot a bit better and still hold up. Personally I'd rather err on the side of more power than less...thus why my LR hunting rig is a 300 WM.

As for the naysayers and pleaders that say you shouldn't shoot at long range or that you can't use a certain bullet, I'm getting more and more convinced that they haven't got the skills or discipline to take a long range shot with confidence. Beware of people who tell you that you shouldn't do something because they can't do it. Talk to the real practitioners of long range shooting and hunting to get your advice.
 
Ditto, I've personally shot next to a guy shooting a BAR in 300 win mag, using reloads, shooting off a paint can, at 500yards and putting every shot within 6". Looking at the guy you'd think he didn't know what he was doing, relatively beat up gun and not your typical long range rig, ghetto front rest, not the best english skills, ground mat was that blue plastic bubble wrap. BUT when he pulled the trigger every bullet hit it's mark. Never judge someones skills until you've seen them shoot. :)
 
Though it is not for me long range shots are possible if
1. A dedicated long range rifle of min .5moa at the shooting distance is used.
2. The conditions are near perfect and known, ie wind speed and direction, distance and shot angle as well as air density ( elevation and temp.)
3. A very steady shooting position ( near bench rest) is used.
4. The shooter has extraordinary skill and has practiced shooting at the various ranges and angles and can hit a realistic ( no bullseye) animal target in the kill zone all the time using his/her field equipment not just off the bench at the range.

I know one shooter who does the above with a group of friends who share a rifle and the specialized equipment to make such shots humane. They use the rig for mule deer around Sask landing. If you have such equipment and skill then I have no problems with long range hunting but alas many people buy a rifle and high power scope but lack the skills and experience to use them.
 
H4831 said:
Trying to shoot bears at 600 plus yards with your 308 is a perfect recipe for wounding bears.
At that distance your 308 will have about half the power of a 30-30 up close, and many out there think a 30-30 is light for black bear.
With a bear standing cross ways to you at 600 plus yards, you aim at his shoulder. If there is enough breeze that you can feel it on your cheek, your perfectly aimed bullet could hit him in the belly, or rear end.
Click to expand...

yep x1
 
hunter5425 said:
Though it is not for me long range shots are possible if
1. A dedicated long range rifle of min .5moa at the shooting distance is used.
2. The conditions are near perfect and known, ie wind speed and direction, distance and shot angle as well as air density ( elevation and temp.)
3. A very steady shooting position ( near bench rest) is used.
4. The shooter has extraordinary skill and has practiced shooting at the various ranges and angles and can hit a realistic ( no bullseye) animal target in the kill zone all the time using his/her field equipment not just off the bench at the range.

I know one shooter who does the above with a group of friends who share a rifle and the specialized equipment to make such shots humane. They use the rig for mule deer around Sask landing. If you have such equipment and skill then I have no problems with long range hunting but alas many people buy a rifle and high power scope but lack the skills and experience to use them.
Click to expand...

yep x2
 
Papaclaude said:
I'm looking to develop some hunting loads for long-range use (600+ yds) on black bear, for my 308. Typically, I use Nosler or Game king 165 gr. bullets, but I wonder if my bullets will be traveling fast enough to expand at that range. Would I be better with a bullet that expands quickly, like the Match King, to ensure proper expansion at those velocities? I would not be taking any shots at less than 600 yd.:confused:
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For long range hunting heavier bullets will work better as they retain energy and velocity better.
Most "premium hunting" bullets will not expand well or at all at low velocity, having tried Partitions years ago out of my 300 win they pencilled through worse than a Match bullet. The worked great at closer ranges though and the Match bullets tended to blow apart most times at close range.
I would try either the 178 Amax or 180 gr Sciroccos or if your rifle will work with them the 185 Bergers.
Understand that at close range you will want to use a "hunting" bullet for penetration and expansion and at beyond 400 yards they will stand a good chance of wounding.
Personally I feel 600 yards is pushing a 308 to the very edge of its potential for bears, deer no problem, but bears can have nasty repercussions when truly annoyed.
 
I KNOW I couldn't hit a black bear where he lives at 600 yards, so I would never try. I even personally know one, or possibly two individuals who probably could hit a wee black bear where he lives at that range, but I am pretty sure they would never try it. I say probably, because I have never had the opportunity to set up a volleyball sized target, obscured in shape and form, at 600 yards range, and they challenged either of them to a one shot hit. Known range, (we acknowledge good laser range finders) unfamiliar terrain, any position, but realistic terrain, target and shooter will be in wild lands.

Don't think either of them would bet their gear on the shot! Oh, I know folks make those shots every day, and snipers make lots of hits at twice that. Making the shot, or getting a hit at an enemy, is not the same as an ethical hunting shot at an animal which may become dangerous to others if wounded. Feel free to get after it. And to jump down my throat 'cause you do it every day.
 
ykkid said:
I KNOW I couldn't hit a black bear where he lives at 600 yards, so I would never try. I even personally know one, or possibly two individuals who probably could hit a wee black bear where he lives at that range, but I am pretty sure they would never try it. I say probably, because I have never had the opportunity to set up a volleyball sized target, obscured in shape and form, at 600 yards range, and they challenged either of them to a one shot hit. Known range, (we acknowledge good laser range finders) unfamiliar terrain, any position, but realistic terrain, target and shooter will be in wild lands.

Don't think either of them would bet their gear on the shot! Oh, I know folks make those shots every day, and snipers make lots of hits at twice that. Making the shot, or getting a hit at an enemy, is not the same as an ethical hunting shot at an animal which may become dangerous to others if wounded. Feel free to get after it. And to jump down my throat 'cause you do it every day.
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I am missing your point I think. What has this got to do with proper bullet choice for the task at hand?
 
Bears are, or should be, more than just targets.
When the original poster writes that he will not take any shots under 600 yards, what he is describing is a technical stunt, not real hunting. Of course, ethics are a personal matter, but those without ethics predictably object to anyone suggesting that they consider some self imposed limits on their behaviour. Call me a fudd all you want, the bears deserve better.
 
Long range bullet

Thanx for the feedback. I was really only concerned about the bullet opening up properly. If I do go for bears at long range, I'll be u7sing Remmy 700 SPS varmint with 6-24 scope, and ONLY after making sure I can consistently hit a 6" target at that range . I'll also be using a laser range-finder and would not attempt a shot if there is any wind or if I was not 100% convinced that the bullet would hit where I aimed. I wouldn't try a shot at a moving critter. These would be bears feeding in clear-burned blueberry patches I've been hunting for 40 years and have wounded 1 bear (with a flinch-lock) with over 50 killed.
 
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