Longer range with 30-30

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Seems like easy to have close range accuracy. But farther the distance. The more powder I need to keep accuracy. But that is the rub. Soon as I start to get hot then I start to get flyers. I don't have a chronograph so I'm only guessing.
Shooting 1894 with original front sight and climbing Lyman.
Ideal 311291 with homemade lube sized 311.
13 grains sr4759
At 250 yards I can keep shots in 6 inch circle but past this range things fall a part.
I'm casting straight lead.
With wheelweights and or water dropping accuracy was worse.
I'm still trying different powders. Herco, blue dot and w748 I haven't tried yet.
Pistol powders like titegroup do well at 100yards but I can tell by point of impact that to slow for farther out.
I guess I could also try shooting un sized 311 cast bullets.
What kind of accuracy should I be able to get on a calm day with 30 cal at 300 or 350 yards?
 
boxhitch said:
scoped, 2 moa should be doable

what works for close range accuracy should be the same as for longer, just have to aim higher
not sure how you need more powder
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I also have a original percussion sharps that was converted to 45-70. It's a calvary carbine with barrel sights. If I compare the 45-70 to my 30-30. The 45-70 has shorter sight radius. Heavier trigger and worse sights.
At 100yards the 30-30 out shoots the 45-70. But at 300yards the 45-70 out shoots the 30-30.
Only theory I have is the lighter 30-30 bullets are losing their stability probably from losing their spin?
But it also seems like I can only load the 30-30 to so much muzzle velocity. If I send the little bullets to fast I start to get flyers.
Everybody that I'm shooting against has 38-55 or bigger and I'm thinking this is no accident.
 
I have pushed my win 94 30-30 out to 280 with cast bullets. Best I could do was 6”s. I was planning on trying some heavier bullets of 200 gr as I always found a heavy for caliber cast bullet always worked better at distance with other calibers. Maybe some day I’ll revisit that experiment with the 30-30.
 
Without knowing bullet weight/shape, muzzle velocity, and ballistic coefficient I would suspect your bullets are going transonic at that distance, hence the decrease in accuracy.

I suspect this is the case when you said, "But farther the distance. The more powder I need to keep accuracy."

More powder increases the muzzle velocity which increases the distance before your bullets go subsonic.
 
So many variables here. Alloy used and hardness velocity pushed bullet fit ect. And yes generally bigger bores shoot better with cast and can handle more velocity then smaller bores without leading and will carry their velocity further then a smaller bullet.
 
Snider shooter said:
I have pushed my win 94 30-30 out to 280 with cast bullets. Best I could do was 6”s. I was planning on trying some heavier bullets of 200 gr as I always found a heavy for caliber cast bullet always worked better at distance with other calibers. Maybe some day I’ll revisit that experiment with the 30-30.
Click to expand...
Problem in 1894 30wcf is even the 170 is bullets I'm using now are sticking slightly into powder resivor.
This probably is already effecting accuracy? Some powder would tend to touch the bullet lube when handling or running through the gun's action. That's another reason for powder coating. Would eliminate the bullet lube.
 
The slower burning w748 showed great promise yesterday at 100yards. When Weather gets better ( blizzard right now) I will try it at longer ranges but I can tell by point of impact at 100yards that I'm gaining quite a bit of velocity with it. I wasn't getting any leading or flyers with w748.
I've been looking into powder coating. Seems like top long range rifle accuracy guys don't use it?
Powder coat won't work with my current bore riding nose molds that are already tight fit on bore riding nose part.
I've never heard of Paul Harrell. I will look him up.
Thanks Everyone
 
The 30.30 IMO was never a long ranging gun, until you run lots of rounds in order to experience the amount of drop it has. I put it with the 7.62x39 category for range. Not to say it's a bad round, but most 30.30s are not built for longer ranges unless you get a custom rifle. Before anyone starts flaming me, please remember it can do it but it requires practice.
I cast and powder coat 170's for my loads, and it's basically resetting all the shooting I've done. Practice will improve your abilities.
good luck
 
Yeah I want to be able to hit a 5 gallon bucket at 300 and 350 yards.
It's one gun in a three gun cowboy action side match.
I'm shooting 30-30 because I already owned it.
 
If you could pick up ‘94 rifle in .32 Special you just may have better luck. The .32 has a slower twist and is a really great cast bullet caliber so long as the bore is not too worn. The slower twist and slightly larger bore do help with cast. I’m also not sure if your current bullet is plain based or not as I find soft, plain based bullets can struggle with stronger loads. I have had very good results with fiber or cardboard wads seated before the bullet but I ensure it stays in the case neck. Others have tried various fillers but I’m leary if that except with black powder.
Lastly, it was common for old winchesters to have chamber necks on the small side compared to the bore diameter which impacts your ability to have a bore filling bullet. Again, the fiber or cardboard wads may help seal the bore if that is an issue.
6” @250 yards with issue sights is pretty darn good though.
 
for s&g's

bullet b.c. of .2, 168 gr , launched @ 1500
to 900 yds = 1400" of drop or 150-ish moa
needs a Creedmoor sight 6-8" tall

more down to earth,
to 500 yds = 300" of drop or only ~60 moa
 
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