Looking for some input on a survival gun

A few of us are on the same train of thought: A firearm is way down the list of of survival items actually needed to stay alive in the bush. But if a gun is a must; the one thing I do remember, is in a group of 'guns', it is better to be carrying the same model & caliber for obvious reasons.

The big factor for any choice would be the area, expectation of rescue & time spent waiting for or traveling to help. No one gun would be totally perfect for all world scenarios. It's all hypothetical & fun to play along here on line. But it would really blow if your sitting in the Arctic with no heat or in the desert with no water. Two places I've worked in with no wrecks! Whether your a passenger or flight crew or simply lost in the bush while hunting or hiking. Knowing how to make something out of nothing, whether to stay put or to travel, First Aid, etc... Will keep you alive longer than any gun selection.

And Ardent, I'd take a dry pack of dry smokes & playing cards over one of those tinfoil space blankets any day!:p;)
 
If I were to pick one rifle for use as a survival rifle it would be one of my super light weight Rynite stocked stainless steel T/C Contender carbines with my s/s 21" factory tapered barrel in 375JDJ = 260gr Accubonds @ 2300fps.

I'd also throw into my pack my stainless steel 16.5" 22LR factory tapered barrel and a box or two of 22LR CCI SGB (small game bullets) = these are the very best 22LR bullet for quickly killing grouse/rabbits with that I have ever found/used.

To keep the weight down both barrels would be wearing iron sights only and it only takes a minute or so to swap the barrels.
 
Number one survival tool for Canadian bush is an Axe bar none, followed by good footwear/jacket, but there's nothing wrong with a fully charged satelite phone LOL

As for a Survival firearm in the Canadian back country there is some piece of mind in having a hi power handgun/rifle but like some have said a 12 gauge can't be beat for the versatility in ammo, (shot for high percentage hits on rabbit/grouse etc, and slugs for deer and larger), yet it will be exposure that will likely get you first, so the ability to make a fire and build shelter are number one in my mind and a firearm can't help you with these (well except for starting a fire with the gunpowder),,,

I have a good buddy who has flown fixed wing and now flies rotary into extremely remote regions and he legally carries a 10mm Glock as his firearm of choice (mostly for comfort/convenience in carrying allowing quick access for the large bears that are often around on landings and resupplies), fortunately he's never needed it in a woods survival scenario,,,

A firearm that offers confidence in your ability to survive might be looked at as being the best from a psychological standpoint,,,
just my 2 cents
 
My remote area carrry handguns were Colt Delta Elite 6" barreled 10mm/Glock 20 5" barreled 10mm/S&W 629 6" barrel 44mag/Ruger Bisley Vaquero's 5.5" barreled 45 Colt/Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" and 4.25" barreled 454 Casull = I look at handguns in remote area as defense tools more than survival tools.

Yes I could have used them for survival and would not have an issue shooting grouse/rabbit at 30 - 50 yards with any of them but for a survival tool I want a rifle that can reach out if game is scarce.

The reason I do not promote a shotgun even though shotguns maybe the ultimate overall tool is due to the weight of the ammo just to heavy is after a crash/accident you have to hike out.

This is also why I want a 22LR 2 - 3 boxes of 50 = 100 - 150 rounds and weigh almost nothing in a pack.

The old time prospectors/trappers carried 22 rifles to provide small game I figure they knew what they were doing.
 
First off, I am not a fan of the Savage over/under combination guns, not that there is anything wrong with the concept, which is an excellent one. But in practice I was never able to get the sights to regulate for both the smooth bore and the rifle, so for me, its a nonstarter. At one time I considered a very light weight survival gun built on a TC Contender with a 16" rifle barrel and a folding pistol grip stock chambered for a 6mm or a 6.5 TCU. The whole thing would have weighed about 4.5 pounds with a red dot sight , a reflex sight, or a compact scope. I envisioned this thing as a means of harvesting geese on the tundra out to 200 yards without being overly destructive, while still being suitable for caribou, and in a pinch would solve a bear problem. It never saw fruition.

If I was to be out in the wild for an extended or open ended period of time, I would probably opt for a scoped .30/06 bolt gun with a variety of ammunition, the selection of which would be dictated by the area I was in. For around here, I would choose low velocity 150 gr FMJ handloads for small game and birds, which like the TC would be effective out to 200 yards and full powered 180 gr soft points would work on caribou, moose, seals, and bears.
 
The best survival gun is the one you have with you when you need it. There are many survival scenario's that could occur... The "plane crash scenario"... The "lost on a wilderness hunting trip scenario"... The "post apocalyptic scenario" ect... Each would beg a different firearm.

If I were to be trapped in the wilderness for an extended period of time, say a full year (four seasons)... I would want a .22 Mag repeater (a lever action for me)... It will handle most chores required of it, if not well, at least sufficiently... You can carry an aweful lot of ammo and it has more power than LR... It will take care of small game, big game (sneak close and head shoot), protection from that roving pack of wolves or a mildly interested bear (would do little to deter a serious attack)... For the OP, in a survival gun I would rather have a single shot .22 than an over under .22/.410... The .22 can handle most of the .410 chores, so why haul around two barrels? .410 shells are too heay to lug very many around in the bush when in duress. JMO.
 
I bought an old $100 Lee Enfield that I drag around the bush, on canoe trips, and toss in the truck when I hit the trails. It will keep the bears away, and I'm not too worried about it getting screwed up by the piss poor treatment it gets. If I found myself looking for food, I'm confident I'll be able to take out a squirrel....
 
Depends on what you want to survive and how much ammo you want to take.

If you want plenty of ammo, I'd be fine with a small .223 chambered carbine with some very light .22mag level loads for small game and some full power loads with a TSX bullet. Good for small game and mid size animals like deer or black bear, can kill a moose in a pinch too. In the extremely rare event of a bear attack, the .223 isn't ideal, but it wouldn't bounce off a bear either. It would certainly penetrate a grizzly skull.

If I didn't mind having a smaller supply of ammo, I'd do the same with light loads and full power loads, just in a larger cartridge.

Nothing wrong with a 12 gauge with a selection of ammo either, but now you are really adding bulk and weight to your ammo supply.
 
I always wonder how many shells / ammo a guy thinks he needs in a survival gun, we have a bunch of Remington Marine magnums in the gun locker in camp we can sign out, and they go out with 25 shells. To me, that's a lot of ammo, and not at all bulky. 5 flares, 5 slugs, and birdshot for the remainder, and you're set til they find you.
 
Ardent; I did build myself a sweet little survival rifle which resided full time in my plane..............It was a rimfire Martini changed to centre fire and chambered in a 6mm hornet which sent 90 gn Speer fmjs down the tube at 1800 fps. It had a set of Rem 700 sights on it and I could hit rabbits and grouse out to 50-60 yds with it. It would also be capable of MAYBE saving my ass from a grizzly (a lot better than a 22 mag or 22). I hollowed out the buttstock and made a lift and pull spring loaded buttplate and it held 100 rds in the butt. It had a 16" barrel and weighed 4 lbs with the 100 rds in the butt. To me this was the ultimate survival rifle, capable of dispatching big game and not too destructive on small game and a fighting chance against a grizzly.
As I've said before though a firearm is so far down the list of survival needs it is rather a moot point. When I did crash this plane in a blizzard, I walked away from it covered in fuel, soaked to the skin, and left the rifle in the plane. It was so far down what I considered necessary survival supplies that I completely forgot I had it. I then followed a bear trail up the creek, covered in blood, 3 miles to the closest placer mining operation. I did wish I had the rifle about a mile from the plane when I caught fresh grizzly tracks on my trail, but was more concerned about staunching the blood flow from my hand and ear than where the grizzly was. In my frame of mind that bear would have been in deep #### if he'd showed up anyway.
 
Ardent said:
I always wonder how many shells / ammo a guy thinks he needs in a survival gun, we have a bunch of Remington Marine magnums in the gun locker in camp we can sign out, and they go out with 25 shells. To me, that's a lot of ammo, and not at all bulky. 5 flares, 5 slugs, and birdshot for the remainder, and you're set til they find you.
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Which is fine if you are lost and the rescue crews are out looking... but if it is an extended stay... and each one of those 12 gauge shells accounts for a grouse... you will get hungry fast... but what the hell do I know... I grew up reading Farley Mowat and Louis L'Amour novels... always wanted to be a Sackett.... not a saloon Sackett... a "fresh-off-the-boat" Sackett.
 
Boomer said:
First off, I am not a fan of the Savage over/under combination guns, not that there is anything wrong with the concept, which is an excellent one. But in practice I was never able to get the sights to regulate for both the smooth bore and the rifle, so for me, its a nonstarter. At one time I considered a very light weight survival gun built on a TC Contender with a 16" rifle barrel and a folding pistol grip stock chambered for a 6mm or a 6.5 TCU. The whole thing would have weighed about 4.5 pounds with a red dot sight , a reflex sight, or a compact scope. I envisioned this thing as a means of harvesting geese on the tundra out to 200 yards without being overly destructive, while still being suitable for caribou, and in a pinch would solve a bear problem. It never saw fruition.

If I was to be out in the wild for an extended or open ended period of time, I would probably opt for a scoped .30/06 bolt gun with a variety of ammunition, the selection of which would be dictated by the area I was in. For around here, I would choose low velocity 150 gr FMJ handloads for small game and birds, which like the TC would be effective out to 200 yards and full powered 180 gr soft points would work on caribou, moose, seals, and bears.
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I've never been to impressed with the Savage combination guns either as that to me they seem to lack a little of the refinements and workmanship I'd prefer to see. The concept of a combination gun does seem to be a decent choice. I have a Brno, 7x57R/12ga with an additional set of 12ga OU barrels that to me seems to fit the bill.

ModelZH-300BrnoCombo7x5712gaSkeetba.jpg
 
c-fbmi said:
Ardent; I did build myself a sweet little survival rifle which resided full time in my plane..............It was a rimfire Martini changed to centre fire and chambered in a 6mm hornet which sent 90 gn Speer fmjs down the tube at 1800 fps. It had a set of Rem 700 sights on it and I could hit rabbits and grouse out to 50-60 yds with it. It would also be capable of MAYBE saving my ass from a grizzly (a lot better than a 22 mag or 22). I hollowed out the buttstock and made a lift and pull spring loaded buttplate and it held 100 rds in the butt. It had a 16" barrel and weighed 4 lbs with the 100 rds in the butt. To me this was the ultimate survival rifle, capable of dispatching big game and not too destructive on small game and a fighting chance against a grizzly.
As I've said before though a firearm is so far down the list of survival needs it is rather a moot point. When I did crash this plane in a blizzard, I walked away from it covered in fuel, soaked to the skin, and left the rifle in the plane. It was so far down what I considered necessary survival supplies that I completely forgot I had it. I then followed a bear trail up the creek, covered in blood, 3 miles to the closest placer mining operation. I did wish I had the rifle about a mile from the plane when I caught fresh grizzly tracks on my trail, but was more concerned about staunching the blood flow from my hand and ear than where the grizzly was. In my frame of mind that bear would have been in deep #### if he'd showed up anyway.
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That's a hell of a story- and one I hope I never earn a match for. Low viz is some kind of scary stuff, we fly down to a 1/2 mile rotary and that's not leaving much room for things if it gets worse, all too easy to imagine how it can happen. You're damn lucky it didn't light up! Truth be told, almost always left my long gun in the machine, it's just not something you're grabbing when you're off to some spot not far away. Handguns are the only way to go it's just a shame they're so difficult for the average joe to get permission to carry, we can barely through a multitude of hoops get ATCs in our job and who knows how long that will be available. A handgun's the only gun you have on you when you need it in my opinion working out of a cockpit, and the only kind of gun that is small and light enough to be considered a survival tool. To me, survival means you're likely getting out as fast as you can and likely without grabbing anything, what's strapped to me will make it. Seeing as I can't have bearspray in the cockpit, let alone strapped to me (and spray couldn't feed me in a pinch or direct rescuers either) I carry a handgun. I wanted to avoid getting to that point as it seems unfair to the thread as for many, it's not an option.

I avoid paperwork the easy (but expensive) way at present, it's a legal antique Mauser C-96 in .30 Mauser. Only 85 grains, but at 1450fps, does what I need it to. Silly accurate guns with the fixed barrel, very long sight radius, and the sights are graduated out to an absurd 1000 yards, I can hit gongs at oddly long ranges with it, I consider it a "hand rifle" and it's built like one.

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hoytcanon said:
Which is fine if you are lost and the rescue crews are out looking... but if it is an extended stay... and each one of those 12 gauge shells accounts for a grouse... you will get hungry fast... but what the hell do I know... I grew up reading Farley Mowat and Louis L'Amour novels... always wanted to be a Sackett.... not a saloon Sackett... a "fresh-off-the-boat" Sackett.
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Indeed, and a fair point on timeframes I omitted being focused only on the aviation aspect. Generally, they come looking pretty fast, however remote the incident and your biggest danger is exposure.
 
Ardent said:
I always wonder how many shells / ammo a guy thinks he needs in a survival gun, we have a bunch of Remington Marine magnums in the gun locker in camp we can sign out, and they go out with 25 shells. To me, that's a lot of ammo, and not at all bulky. 5 flares, 5 slugs, and birdshot for the remainder, and you're set til they find you.
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Amount of ammo would depend on circumstance. 25 might be more than enough for some situations, but woefully inadequate for others. Cool Broomhandle mauser, too. :)
 
My family homesteaded north of Lessor Slave Lake in the early thirties.

I got into this discussion with my Dad once and he laughed at me. His response was a set of wrenches and sockets were far more valuable than a stinking gun. They raised three generations so far and no loss to bears or bush. Alcohol and logging are a different story!

Your choice would work fine but I would prefer the 20 gauge option. Being a rifleman I think my Win 94 32 Special might get the nod. But the list would start with matches, small sturdy knife, axe, snare wire, and fishing gear first.

Besides if I'm really in the deep stuff I tell my wife to look for the narrow end of the forest fire.
 
Might be worth mentioning that with the 410 you can do all sorts of bubba ammo in a desperate situation. People have managed to shoot field tip arrowheads out of 410 shotguns. Check out iraqveteran8888 on youtube.

I'm not recommending you try it, because it could blow up and kill you and everyone nearby, but they got up to something like 454 Casull cartridges before their trusty old single shot exploded. They had to intentionally torture it to get it to die, they were picking handfulls of random ammo and shooting it. If that doesn't sound like "survival" I don't know what does.
Granted, a large part of that will depend on the firearm itself, as well as make and model and condition.

So, a 22 over 410 could do you quite well in many situations assuming you use it within it's intended range.
 
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