LWRC SMG45 PDW Leaked...

[fenceline]

It should be NR. Doesn't look to share any parts with the AR. Probably a completely redesigned blowback rifle

Have you actually taken a moment to look at the lower on this gun? AR trigger groups cross pins, dual take down pins, AR safety, AR grip, AR trigger guard. All they did was modify the magazine release, modified the magazine well and removed the section where a buffer tube screws in, in favour of a folding stock.

While I wish it wasn't simply for the NR status, this will be an AR variant all the way.

 

[fenceline]

Kind of wish it could be labeled as a AR variant and brought in faster. I have no faith in the FRT system and RCMP.

Well the FRT system is a reflection of what is written in the Firearms Act, and nothing more. And the FRT system is compiled by the RCMP. It isn't autonomous.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Have you actually taken a moment to look at the lower on this gun? AR trigger groups cross pins, dual take down pins, AR safety, AR grip, AR trigger guard. All they did was modify the magazine release, modified the magazine well and removed the section where a buffer tube screws in, in favour of a folding stock.

While I wish it wasn't simply for the NR status, this will be an AR variant all the way.

Not necessarily, and I'm usually the first to doubt things being N.R.

Look at the Thureon Defense carbine and the Robarms XCR. Both have an "upper/lower" design which is kinda-sorta like an AR15 (The Thureon Defense even uses AR15 triggers), but dimensionally different. Look at the ATRS Modern Hunter, again - similar but different enough.

The lower on this is different enough that it shouldn't be usable (even with duct tape) on an AR15 upper. The mag well is too short so the hammer would strike the bolt carrier, that's assuming it's actually even an AR15 hammer in it. And with this rifles upper, there is no way in hell that an AR15 lower could work, as the buffer tube tang is completely in the way.


BUT, with my USC45 non-restricted now, I could live with this being restricted and have a short barrel!

 

[beltfed]

While I wish it wasn't ... this will be an AR variant all the way.

What gives you that impression?
Could it be the duck-taped assemblage of parts to fire a round that the RCMP lab has been purported to have done in the past?
If the take down pin locations are different from typical AR placement, these only have a passing similarity despite the sharing of some common parts.

 

[Trinimon]

Me want!!

 

[Death]

I was looking at the way it doesn't have a similar gas system/ buffer system and I'm assume bolt group. Operation is probably similar to the USC. Lots of non restricted use upper/lower assembly pins and AR trigger groups. And if the "duct tape" test was 100% for everything the ACR should of been a variant

 

[rally guy]

I was looking at the way it doesn't have a similar gas system/ buffer system and I'm assume bolt group. Operation is probably similar to the USC. Lots of non restricted use upper/lower assembly pins and AR trigger groups. And if the "duct tape" test was 100% for everything the ACR should of been a variant

Yeah! This should have a better chance then the acr and xcr.

 

[Kanwar88]

Well the FRT system is a reflection of what is written in the Firearms Act, and nothing more. And the FRT system is compiled by the RCMP. It isn't autonomous.

While it's not autonomous, if a firearm is very similar to a current classified firearm then the process for the new firearm is quicker no? I doubt every ar SBR made by all the various manufacturers went through a 3 year approval process. If this is blatantly an AR then shouldn't it come to canada faster ? The FRT process for new rifles that want to be non restricted seems like purgatory.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know much about the process and frankly hate the damn laws and it's killing the hobby for me.

 

[greentips]

An "AR15" is the lower receiver, which is the registered firearms.

A lower receiver that cannot mate with an AR15 upper is not an AR15.

What it is going on in the upper is irrelevant, it is the lower that it is the firearm.

Just because a lower receiver uses AR15 trigger or take AR magazine, it doesn't mean it is an AR variant ( like AR180B) automatically.

What makes an AR an AR? An AR lower uses 1) a spring loaded buffer in the stock extension; 2) 2 captive-pin arrangement in particular relationship to mate with an upper ; 3) AR fire control design;

You can only call an AR an AR( or variant ) when it uses all the characteristics of an AR.

You can scale up and down an AR, but as long as it has all the "technologies" of an AR, it is an AR variant.

 

[mikethebike]

Well this thing sure does not have a spring loaded buffer located in the stock!

 

[fenceline]

An "AR15" is the lower receiver, which is the registered firearms.

A lower receiver that cannot mate with an AR15 upper is not an AR15.

What it is going on in the upper is irrelevant, it is the lower that it is the firearm.

Just because a lower receiver uses AR15 trigger or take AR magazine, it doesn't mean it is an AR variant ( like AR180B) automatically.

What makes an AR an AR? An AR lower uses 1) a spring loaded buffer in the stock extension; 2) 2 captive-pin arrangement in particular relationship to mate with an upper ; 3) AR fire control design;

You can only call an AR an AR( or variant ) when it uses all the characteristics of an AR.

You can scale up and down an AR, but as long as it has all the "technologies" of an AR, it is an AR variant.

I'll bet a 9mm style AR upper will fire off this.

Like I said, while I wish it wasn't, I'll bet it is.

And I'll even bet LWRC uses terminology that links it to the AR15 platform, further sewering all hopes of NR status here.

Spring loaded buffer tube really doesn't matter, as their are already AR variants that don't have them.

IF an AR upper functions off it, even for one round, it will be classed an AR variant. Just like ATRS's first "Modern Hunter" prototype.

 

[TV-PressPass]

Or the Akdal MKA 1919

 

[greentips]

An AR looking lower that doesn't have the ability to mount buffer assembly is not a variant of an AR. An AR needs to have a buffer assembly to make the upper work. That is the key of the AR 15 technology. I bet there is an expired patent on it.

 

[Familygunnutz]

NR or not, a 18.5" barrel will look like crap to me so I'd rather get one R and short.
I'm tired of trading handling and balance for shooting in the woods, where I'll have to deal with cops and all the trash left over by the SKS crowd.
the only NR I'm interested in is tavor, above is solely my situation and my opinion.

 

[sapper043]

I want. Very badly, want.

I would prefer 9mm as I would shoot the hell out of this and 45acp gets costly compared to 9mm.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

too bad LWRC wasn't more prevalent here in Canada - I love their rifles!

Probably because there is no market for them.

 

[Tom E Gun]

An AR looking lower that doesn't have the ability to mount buffer assembly is not a variant of an AR....

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a solid piece of molded plastic (no ability to install the buffer or spring) in place of the buffer tube but it is still considered an AR variant.

 

[fenceline]

An AR looking lower that doesn't have the ability to mount buffer assembly is not a variant of an AR. An AR needs to have a buffer assembly to make the upper work. That is the key of the AR 15 technology. I bet there is an expired patent on it.

The lab only needs to make it fire once off the lower. No buffer tube required to do that.

Even the ARAK has no need for a buffer tube attached to the lower given the redesign of its upper. Or the piston driven AR pistols that have a lower with no buffer. Still variants.

If the lab can install an AR upper, and make it fire, they'll deem it a variant. As there is no definition of what makes a variant, this function test is what they use. They have done it time and again.

Like I said, the first ATRS "Modern Hunter" got deemed an AR variant this very same way. Which is why the current non-restricted design has a drop down mating surface between the upper and the lower, and the front only take down pin with the plunger at the rear. An AR10 style upper won't mate to the lower, so it isn't an AR variant.

 

[fenceline]

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a solid piece of molded plastic (no ability to install the buffer or spring) in place of the buffer tube but it is still considered an AR variant.

Yup. Because an AR upper will fit to it and fire one round. It won't cycle because of that buffer tube issue, but it will fire with an upper attached.

 

[Brian46]

The lab only needs to make it fire once off the lower. No buffer tube required to do that.

Even the ARAK has no need for a buffer tube attached to the lower given the redesign of its upper. Or the piston driven AR pistols that have a lower with no buffer. Still variants.

If the lab can install an AR upper, and make it fire, they'll deem it a variant. As there is no definition of what makes a variant, this function test is what they use. They have done it time and again.

Like I said, the first ATRS "Modern Hunter" got deemed an AR variant this very same way. Which is why the current non-restricted design has a drop down mating surface between the upper and the lower, and the front only take down pin with the plunger at the rear. An AR10 style upper won't mate to the lower, so it isn't an AR variant.

care to explain the Dlask arms pump action AR and it's restricted ruling