M-14 Blasphemy?

[Seafury]

Exactly

So where was your DVD player made?

I still use the Sansui stereo that my dad bought in 1975. Good Japanese electronics. It cost almost $4000 as I recall. The sound is amazing still. I have gone through 3 Chinese DVD players since about 2000. Of course they were under $200 each. Thanks for making my point.

To clarify a Norinco/Polytech M14 "TYPE" rifle is not an M14. Springfield calls their civilian version an M1A. They have a more legitimate claim to the designation than the Chinese do. This is the point I am trying to make.

 

[shortandlong]

^^^^^ I think people figured that as i did .........jus ribb'n ya

 

[Tyler]

To clarify a Norinco/Polytech M14 "TYPE" rifle is not an M14. Springfield calls their civilian version an M1A. They have a more legitimate claim to the designation than the Chinese do. This is the point I am trying to make.

Who cares?

So I guess all those clone AK-47's and AKM's and SKS's aren't *really* what their name implies because, after all, they weren't made in Russia. Even though they look and function exactly the same.

I never really understood why the M-14 line is subject to such snobbery and anal-retentiveness when it comes to Chinese clones. You never hear of this level of #####ing and moaning anywhere else, but when the Chinese copy something American made, everyone gets all up in arms about it.

Maybe because they paid too much money?

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck.... it must be an M-14.

 

[Seafury]

Hey guys I'm not going to blow a nut over this. Ever held a real M14? Hesus I wish I'd never let mine go but at the time it represented more coin than I was prepared to lose to the new legislation so I kept the $500 FAL and took my chances. I moved to Saskatchewan in Sept of 92 and The RC's tried to seize it. With the M2 bipod, ART IV scope and Springfield mount I had $1500 into the M14. Remember when these were just rifles? Remember when you could get a merit badge in Cub Scouts for marksmanship? WTF is going on?

 

[Seafury]

Who cares?

Clearly I do. Ak's are stamped steel mass produced rifles. I don't own one don't want to. To me the M14 is a high quality piece of kit. The AK, AKM, SKS are effective. Nothing more.

There are some guys out there that look, dress, walk, talk and act like women. Have at it.

 

[KePet]

IIRC Springfield Armory is a privately owned company that took that name so that when they copied the M-14 people would associate it with the Springfield Arsenal. I think I remember reading that on this very site. So, although they may call it an M1A they actually picked a company name to give it legitimacy. Huh. Comparing the virtue of one copy to another copy while neither is the original.

 

[shortandlong]

Who cares?

Clearly I do. Ak's are stamped steel mass produced rifles. I don't own one don't want to. To me the M14 is a high quality piece of kit. The AK, AKM, SKS are effective. Nothing more.

There are some guys out there that look, dress, walk, talk and act like women. Have at it.

you have an FAL ........i am jealous

I did play with a machined rxever ak once ........its different from the the pressed steel one but yeah i prefer west rifles

 

[Seafury]

jealous?

you have an FAL ........i am jealous

I did play with a machined rxever ak once ........its different from the the pressed steel one but yeah i prefer west rifles

Don't be, I'm not allowed to shoot the damn thing. 12-3 is a useless catagory to be in, missed 12-5 and had to sell an HK91. On the other hand I can take the M1A anywhere I like. Go figure?

 

[shortandlong]

Don't be, I'm not allowed to shoot the damn thing. 12-3 is a useless catagory to be in, missed 12-5 and had to sell an HK91. On the other hand I can take the M1A anywhere I like. Go figure?

i know but you still have one

 

[francisco]

M14 is a .308 BATTLE RIFLE and not a .223 CARBINE. They are different and related like Robertson and Phillips. The following is a quote from Rating The Battle Rifles chapter of Boston's Gun Bible: "Battle carbines/calibers do have their place (eg. CQB, urban fighting, perimeter defence, etc.), but one must always keep in mind their significant limitations. To wit: they cannot perforate much cover, and effective range is only 200-300 yards. Take the (M14) .308 however. It will strike an incapacitating blow as far as its shooter can hit with iron sights (ie. about 600 yards). It will perforate much battlefield cover, including trees and light steel. As a Vietnam vet friend remarked, "There's no hiding from a .308.""

 

[Brutus]

Mixed opinion:

h ttp://www.savvysurvivor.com/polytech_m14_rifle.htm

 

[Seafury]

M14 is a .308 BATTLE RIFLE and not a .223 CARBINE. They are different and related like Robertson and Phillips. The following is a quote from Rating The Battle Rifles chapter of Boston's Gun Bible: "Battle carbines/calibers do have their place (eg. CQB, urban fighting, perimeter defence, etc.), but one must always keep in mind their significant limitations. To wit: they cannot perforate much cover, and effective range is only 200-300 yards. Take the (M14) .308 however. It will strike an incapacitating blow as far as its shooter can hit with iron sights (ie. about 600 yards). It will perforate much battlefield cover, including trees and light steel. As a Vietnam vet friend remarked, "There's no hiding from a .308.""

Well put. And that leaves the chinese copies like Terrence and Phillip?

 

[Cocked&Locked]

As a final point I wonder how many Norincos show up at the Camp Perry matches? For that manner there are few FN's and no HK's that I've ever been aware of.

Call them C14's

Actually, the few american riflesmiths i've spoke with all prefered the Norc recievers to build match rifles on. If they could get a military action, that was first choice, but Norc was second, and springfield, Fulton and the rest a distant 3rd. The reason you don't see them at camp perry anymore is that they stopped allowing the importation. Springfield makes a pretty rifle, and if i had lots of extra cash around i'd like one or two, but the chinkenese ones function well, shoot well and i don't have to worry if i feel like draggin it thru the bush.

As for the FN and HK, they've never really made pretension of being a target rifle.

And yeah, i'd love to own a FN, loved that beast. Even if i couldn't shoot it, it would be worth owning for its place in history, and hopefully this country will come to it's senses some day and let you give yours a work out again.

 

[kthomas]

I still use the Sansui stereo that my dad bought in 1975. Good Japanese electronics. It cost almost $4000 as I recall. The sound is amazing still. I have gone through 3 Chinese DVD players since about 2000. Of course they were under $200 each. Thanks for making my point.

To clarify a Norinco/Polytech M14 "TYPE" rifle is not an M14. Springfield calls their civilian version an M1A. They have a more legitimate claim to the designation than the Chinese do. This is the point I am trying to make.

Didn't the chinese buy the tooling that the original M14's were made with? If so, doesn't that make them M14's more so then the springfields, etc?

 

[Seafury]

Didn't the chinese buy the tooling that the original M14's were made with? If so, doesn't that make them M14's more so then the springfields, etc?

Are they select fire? M14 rifles were. TRW, Springfield, Harrington & Richardson(if memory serves me) made M14's in the USA. They were not made by Huong, Whang and Chin in the Peoples Republic of China.

So if I use Rembrandt's brush to paint a picture is it a Rembrandt?

 

[Brutus]

For some excellent combat stories of USMC scout/snipers, using early Vietnam War equiment read:
"13 cent Killers, the 5th Marine Snipers in Vietnam."

M14 is a .308 BATTLE RIFLE and not a .223 CARBINE. They are different and related like Robertson and Phillips. The following is a quote from Rating The Battle Rifles chapter of Boston's Gun Bible: "Battle carbines/calibers do have their place (eg. CQB, urban fighting, perimeter defence, etc.), but one must always keep in mind their significant limitations. To wit: they cannot perforate much cover, and effective range is only 200-300 yards. Take the (M14) .308 however. It will strike an incapacitating blow as far as its shooter can hit with iron sights (ie. about 600 yards). It will perforate much battlefield cover, including trees and light steel. As a Vietnam vet friend remarked, "There's no hiding from a .308.""

 

[J996]

Are they select fire? M14 rifles were. TRW, Springfield, Harrington & Richardson(if memory serves me) made M14's in the USA. They were not made by Huong, Whang and Chin in the Peoples Republic of China.

So if I use Rembrandt's brush to paint a picture is it a Rembrandt?

And Winchester

 

[cyclone]

Let's celebrate the wisdom of the gun writer to speak the truth to the popular tide. Throughout the long history of US military arms, there has been a tendency to accept whatever new rifle/pistol is chosen for the troops and immediately begin a nostalgia campaign to keep the old one.

(1) The Beretta 9mm has been the issue sidearm since 1985. That's 25 years ago. But how many gun writers and lobbyists (virtually all are retired military or stand-up one-handed bullseye shooters) have been beating the drum for the M1911 since then? The same was true for the M1 Garand and Carbine, the BAR and the M14. (2)The M16 family has been issue for nearly twice that long, and look at how much ink is spilled and electrons flowed over the rifle it very effectively replaced.

(1) Considering how the 9mm Browning Hi-Power was in active service in the early parts of the 20th century , the table-pounding for the .45's always makes me smile....

(2) My only counter-point to that is , if/when the 5.56mm were to be replaced by a 6.5mm/6.8mm/larger round , would people immediately start a nostalgia campaign over its demise?

 

[MatthewMarchand]

(1) Considering how the 9mm Browning Hi-Power was in active service in the early parts of the 20th century , the table-pounding for the .45's always makes me smile....

(2) My only counter-point to that is , if/when the 5.56mm were to be replaced by a 6.5mm/6.8mm/larger round , would people immediately start a nostalgia campaign over its demise?

2: Yeah, all the support trades who had to carry a bigger, heavier rifle now

 

[kthomas]

Are they select fire? M14 rifles were. TRW, Springfield, Harrington & Richardson(if memory serves me) made M14's in the USA. They were not made by Huong, Whang and Chin in the Peoples Republic of China.

So if I use Rembrandt's brush to paint a picture is it a Rembrandt?

Either way its a fun gun, and a steal for $400. I almost bought one, but im holding out for the Italian ones . To each their own, but whether it be a norinco or a springfield, they both are fully capable of putting lead in the air.

And i would love a select fire M14, maybe one day down here when I scrape enough pennys together I will buy one. But for now I'll just buy the cheap ones.