M14 Match loads: BR2 & which powder?

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LloydM

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I am about to reload a Norinco M14 for the first time. I want to find the most accurate load possible. From what I read it seems that the general agreement for the most favored bullet weight would be 168gr, so I will be using 168gr Sierra Matchkings. Due to component availability the only match primers I can find are CCI BR2. When it comes to powder choice I hear a lot of cheers for H4895 and IMR 4895; several others have been mentioned as well - so what powder goes best with the BR2 primers?

And as a side question, what bullets do you like for gophers? Thanks for the imput!
 
i was actually wondering the same, agreed one 168gr bullets, had no idea match primers existed and was looking for the CGN's m14 owners' favorite powder
 
Match primers do exist and do seem make a difference in a loads accuracy. Federal also makes Match Primers such as the 215M Large Magnum Rifle Match, but from what I have heard they are softer and more prone to cause slam fires, especially in the beefy M14. But even without the slam fire issue - I have just not been able to find even one box of Federal Match primers in the last half year (as long as I have been looking). If anyone has any 215M or any match primers in rifle sizes at all I would be happy to purchase them!
 
If your rifle has not been accurized and tuned for match shooting you are likely wasting your money working up a "match" load with expensive bullets. Not to say that it might not improve performance in your rifle anyway. If you load a standard hunting bullet you will likely get better accuracy than with surplus ball ammo and at a much lower cost. I shoot whatever I can get for a good price--speer, hornady, remington 150 grain plain base spitzers.

FWIW, 44Bore
 
Like 44 said.

There is a law of dimininishing returns of money vs accuracy.

Have you attended a M14 clinic and tightened the gas assembly and bedded the action? If not, it is a great way to spend a day with your rifle.

If not, don't bother with match ammo. Just expensive noise.

Cheap milsurp ammo will help break it in and identify some issues, like how does the trigger feel and getting a working zero for the sights.

A huge leap in accuracy occurs when you load ammo in cases from the same lot (military or commercial) with FLAT based soft point bullets. I have used Hornady 150 and 165 flat based soft points to shoot 1 minute groups in a target rifle. The change to a match bullet would hardly show up on the target using a target rifle. In a M14 I doubt the differnece could be seen under 500 yards.

I suggest a standard winchester or CCI primer. Avoid the federals because of slam fire issues.

I have 3 of the Norincos. 1 old one and 2 new ones. They are getting a modest tune up and I look forward to testing them.
 
still no hints on the powder tho...
I always wondered if glass bedding was necessary for an USGI fiberglass stock?
 
Yes, bedding is critical in any rifle. Even more so in the USGI stock because it has cut-outs for full-auto bits that have to be blocked so the oprod does not fall off.

Powder should be a medium fast powder in the range of 3031 (fastest) to RL-15 (slowest).

For target rifle I weight every powder charge. For service rifle, I throw the powders. So metering characteristics are important to me for the M14 ammo. A ball powder will throw perfectly. WW748 or BLC1, H335. For stick powders, 4895, 4064, 3031, Varget, 4320 and RL15 are all good powders, although 4064 does not meter well.

For this application I look for what I can get cheap. Buy at least 8 pounds.

I prefer to shoot 150 grain bullets. I load the military 147 FMJ for the standing snap and other matches where maximum accuracy is not an issue and for the deliberate matches load either 150 flat base soft point or a 155 Sierrra MAtch.
 
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I appreciate the imput on how to best spend money on getting the most accuracy out of my M14 for the lowest $... I plan on applying the law of diminishing returns to my M14 rifle. I do not apply this law to my ammunition because even with "expensive" match loads I am only spending a buck more per box of 100 primers and maybe 10 bucks for match bullets. It only adds up to a few hundred dollars per 1000 rounds, and that is money well spent in my book. I have read some really great tips in the main battle rifle forum on how to accurize the rifle... but I am looking to accurize my ammunition right now so if anyone has any useful advise on powder / primer combinations I would appreciate it.
 
for my krieger barrelled, completely NM tuned and rebuilt with usgi parts and a 1.630 .308 match chamber
I'll be running the following load as recommended to me.... I will no doubt have to fine tune it for my rifle but here goes

winchester primer (they are perfect in the m14)
Hornady AMAX 165 gr
IMR 4895 powder (starting load will be around 39 grains working up to 41 ish.
 
I had BLC-2 recommended to me. From a guy who had worked out a number of loads and found this one to be the best. Haven't tried it myself yet, but I'm going to. I know he's got alot of experience with this, and I don't, so that's what I got to start with. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Hey, sorry for the hijack, but you might find this info useful as well, does anyone know where I can double check the specs for OAL and min / max powder amounts online? I've got some 155 gr sierra laupas and some 150 gr hornady FMJs to try it with.

I've had some people with alot of experience tell me not to use anything over 155 gr in an M-14s, but then again there's obviously people on here with alot of experience who are using 165 or 168 grain, so really, as a newbie to this, it's quite confusing to know where to start.

The BLC-2 was for a load worked up with 155 gr, so if you go for other bullets, hey, I don't know.

I'm pretty sure that the designated marksmen or snipers or whatever you want to call them who use the "real" M-14 use 168 grain sierra bullets with a ballistic tip, which caused some problems with compliance to the Geneva convention as it is not considered a pure FMJ round.
 
RockyMountain said:
I'm pretty sure that the designated marksmen or snipers or whatever you want to call them who use the "real" M-14 use 168 grain sierra bullets with a ballistic tip, which caused some problems with compliance to the Geneva convention as it is not considered a pure FMJ round.
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USMC DMR , designated marksman rifles are issued 174 gr .308 (7.62x51) , not sure what the actual bullet is though. I built my m14 to be an exact duplicate of the DMR :D ,. I'll be loading 150 gr AMAX and Nosler partition as well as 165/168 match HPBT and Nosler partitions. don't really feel the need to go any higher that that for bullet wieght for beasts or paper targets.
 
LloydM said:
... but I am looking to accurize my ammunition right now so if anyone has any useful advise on powder / primer combinations I would appreciate it.
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Why are you trying to match a powder to primers? That's like the tail wagging the dog. For that rifle, with the range of powders that are appropriate for it, it isn't going to make much of a difference which powder you use with that primer. I tested an H4895/155 Scenar load with WLRs, 210Ms and BR2s. There was only 10 fps. difference in average velocity and no discernable difference in group size.

I'd stick with H4895 since its temperature stable and more appropriate for the gas system than the slower temperature stable powders.
 
there's a whole article by zedicker or something called m14 match loads- although somewhat dated, i've used the thing as a guide since long before the internet- was ISSUED the m14 in basic- as long as uncle sam was paying for the ammo, didn't care too much about accuracy- when i had to learn to roll my own, i got an 8 pound keg of 748 as it was the most cost effective load at the time- still got most of it, and that's between 4 rifles- 165-168 grain pills, 43.9-44 grains- gives about 2550 fps
 
IMR4064 or Varget for match loads. Either gives more consistent accuracy than IMR4895/H4895.
"...what bullets do you like for gophers?..." Out of a .308?
 
The US Army Marksmanship Unit and countless thousands of High Power shooters, including Glen Zedecker swear the 'go-to' powder is one of the 4895s....I can attest to the temperature insensitivity of H4895 as Hodgedon sells it, and its my prefered choice.
 
So far I know that I will be using BR2 primers, As a starting point I have decided I will first try 168gr Sierra MatchKings for paper or 168gr Hornady AMAX for hunting. I still have to decide on a powder; the top choices seem to be:
IMR 4895
H4895
IMR4064
BLC-2
I am leaning away from BLC-2 because it seems to be more popular with slightly lighter bullets, and I am (admittedly not for great reason) partial to Hodgdon and IMR powders. I am not at all concerned with metering because I don't use one, I very carefully spoon my powder onto the scale, and weigh it to 1/100 a grain.

Kombayotch: Why am I trying to match a powder to a primer? It is my belief, granted I am newer to reloading so I am still resting somewhat on others experience because I have yet to try enough combinations for myself, that each powder burns more consistently when paired with certain primers, and less consistently when paired with other primers. For this load I picked my primer first because it was the only match grade available to me, and was then trying to match the powder to it. I am glad to hear that you don't think I will have any bad powder/primer combinations. I am also glad that you mentioned the difference in average velocity between H4895 and the different primers was only 10fps, good to know. Maybe I am makinging to big of a deal over the primer/powder combination?

Sunray: I know the .308 win is a modest caliber of gopher gun, but I will set matters straight as soon as I wear out the barrell on my 7mm rem mag Remington 700 police gopher gun and have the rifle revamped into .338 lapua AI ;)
For the record, I shoot gophers with every firearm I own; also for the record, I do not own any rimfire rifles or have any desire to. I do not mind spending a little more on rifle ammo. You know what Tim Taylor would say!
 
When I was playing with M305's, the best powder I used was Benchmark. Meters alot better then H4895 which would have been my next choice.

155gr Amax or BT Berger, Win brass, CCIBR2 primer (although I used alot of Fed 210M), Benchmark and have fun.

The conventional M1A/M305 recoil system is designed around the 147gr NATO ammo. Using a heavier bullet may lead to premature wear - YMMV.

Work up in very small powder increments. The sweet spot on this rifle is small. I kept muzzle velocity very similar to NATO specs and found the action to run very nicely and brass looking like it came from a bolt rifle.

Also, best results happen after the gas system is properly shimmed/welded and the action/barrel is bedded in the stock.

Otherwise, the rattling of the components will render accuracy unpredictable.

Was very impressed with how well my M305's shot. HItting clay pigeons at 500yds is a hoot.

Jerry
 
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