M38 Jeep Restoration

[Hawkshadow]

That's awesome! Congratulations on your find and welcome to the family. I hope that some of the information in this thread has been helpful. Another invaluable source of information is willysmjeeps.com . They have many of the original manuals available for free download, pictures, and discussion forums on everything from tech knowledge to reproduction parts review.

Congrats once again, I'm looking forward to some pictures.

 

[tommyinbc]

Thanks...Well it was your pictures and details that prompted me to stop thinking about it and actually do something, plus another CGN who contacted me with the M38 for sale. So in due course I'll either be thanking you or cursing you....LOL...The willysjeeps site has been a great help, plus I've got a copy of the ORD9/TM9 manuals and Ryan Millers reference guide...Ordered parts from Ron Fitzpatrick and Peter Debella's which all arrived very quickly...Now I just want to spend every spare moment working on it..) Thanks again...(just got to reduce pic size and post)....

 

[XRCD011]

Hey TommyinBC congratulations in order regarding your finding a M38 is it a M38CDN or out of the US? You will find the things can be a true "time vampire" and there is always something to attend to, freshen up, swap out better parts, and shell out your hard earned after tax dollars on. Buy every manual (repro is fine) for it even the trailer manual.

 

[tommyinbc]

Hey TommyinBC congratulations in order regarding your finding a M38 is it a M38CDN or out of the US? You will find the things can be a true "time vampire" and there is always something to attend to, freshen up, swap out better parts, and shell out your hard earned after tax dollars on. Buy every manual (repro is fine) for it even the trailer manual.

Hi XRCDO11..Cheers...Its a US M38 and never been registered there or here. Very solid..No rust..originally nervous about taking this on, but the more I get into it the better it becomes. Just a pleasure to work on as its so simple and parts have been easy to obtain, albeit a bit costly

 

[tommyinbc]

Here's a few pictures of the M38 being delivered some weeks ago...Looks complete (and I guess it is) but still minor strip down and plenty of work to do..

 

[XRCD011]

JEEP=Just Empty Every Pocket. But take my word they are not that expensive and they are as you note very easy to wrench away on. Is your car 24V or swapped to 12 at some point, I also like the frame on the M38 as its WAY more robust then a MB frame. Look forward to seeing some pics (and do take lots for an album) but if you to busy turning wrenchs thats understandable.

 

[tommyinbc]

JEEP=Just Empty Every Pocket. But take my word they are not that expensive and they are as you note very easy to wrench away on. Is your car 24V or swapped to 12 at some point, I also like the frame on the M38 as its WAY more robust then a MB frame. Look forward to seeing some pics (and do take lots for an album) but if you to busy turning wrenchs thats understandable.[/QUE]

Just Empty Every Pocket..LOL..
Its converted to 12V, but I've got all the 24V items to convert back if req'd...Engine is not original (J stamped on block) but changed the head to incorporate lifting brackets and crossover tube.
Currently fenders and grill are off, seats are out. Replacing gaskets, pinion seals, vent lines and welding new seat brackets. Tool box just installed under passengers seat. Fuel tank re-welded and sealed with POR15...Off to Langley U-blast in 20 mins

 

[Hawkshadow]

Time for an update,

I was able to spend some time getting some more work done on the frame. This included cleaning up old pop-corny welds, fixing cracks or thin spots, removing 2 bent frame shackle mounts, prepping the rear end to accept the new crossmember, and fixing the cut out spots in the front end. I'm quite happy with how the welding is turning out - having a friend with the right equipment is quite helpful!

Plasma cutter removing a shackle mount

Removal of plate to facilitate crossmember install

New MD Juan rear crossmember set in place

Front end, Passenger side:

A little flat stock and some welding:

Cleaned up:

And primed:

A brief update with some of the current issues.

The oil pump has been checked and appears good-to-go. It hasn't been installed as of yet because I am still searching for a consensus on what oil I should be using. I have read everything from diesel oils to racing oils, to anything 30wt, and problems with different zinc contents, viscosity, etc. The simple question is what is the modern equivalent to OE 30 and what is the generally accepted consensus on what oil to use?!

Also, I went to install the fuel pump but the primer lever provided by Then and Now is straight, and the angle that the hole was punched at causes it to sit at more of a downward angle and interfere with the mounting bolt. I tried possibly bending the lever away from the pump but that won't be feasible as the bend would have to be almost 90deg right at the base to clear.. I don't have pictures yet but will shortly.. Until then, here is a picture of the lever installed. This after the required re-shaping of the end and widening of the hole that presses onto the rod...

I went to install my manifold studs and arrived at a problem. 2 of the holes were drilled out and re tapped at some point, and only one had a threaded insert installed to bring it back down to the correct size for the stud.

Correct opening size:

Oversize opening:

Trying to find another threaded insert has become a headache. I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for - a helicoil possibly? And how to correctly convey the size. I tried one size M10 helicoil (had to buy a box, cost $20) today which didn't fit. It was too large to fit in to the hole and thankfully I was able to return the box. It seems like it should be a simple fix, but now I'm stumped.

Please help!

 

[Claven2]

That is definitely a helicoil. I would call Fastenall once you figure out what it's tapped to and what it needs to be. Got a thread gauge and a set of taps? Gauge the thread pitch of the oversized hole, then select a tap of the right pitch to check the diameter. That will give you the hole size and Fastenall will do the rest. I would suggest loctiting the helicoil into place. Something like 222MS should do nicely.

 

[Kevin M.]

Very nice, keep it up!

 

[Hawkshadow]

I went out and spent the money on a helicoil kit. In the end it got the job done quite easily with no issues.
Tapping

Installing coil

Removing coil installation tang. Note that I had to shave down a pair of needle nose to grip the tang and remove it.

End product. Worked exceptionally well during stud install.

What else should one do with their long weekend other than more jeep work?!

New spring shackle mounts bolted and welded in place.

New MD Juan rear crossmember set in place:

The problem was that the mounting holes on the driver's side don't line up! The right side lined up perfectly and the measurements from crossmember tip to frame (compared to the next jeep over with all original frame) were bang on.

Although it wasn't a huge inconvenience for me because I was intending to weld and put faux rivets over the holes, be advised that it is a possible problem that you may encounter on yours. If you were intending to utilize the holes, I would suggest filling them and drilling new ones in the crossmember as opposed to your frame..

Rear crossmember welded in place, and faux rivets created. They look great! A close match to the originals in appearance.

The frame is done and on to media blasting!

Next, I finished stripping down the axles and prepped them for media blasting.

 

[XRCD011]

MD Juan used to be known as "MD Wrong" till the client base and venders in the US told them they where getting a bad rep for their products. If your going to produce a part/panel you will invest as much time and energy making it wrong as you will right so I like doing it right the first time myself. That said MD Juan REALLY turned things around and produce some decent stuff today sadly you must have picked up a crossmember stamped late on a Friday afternoon shift. Your work looks good and like anything its just a matter of grinding away at it till its "done" or when you (the restorer) says "enough already". Myself I would had rerivted crossmemebers instead of welding if you want to take into account frame flex, but no doubt the old soldier will after its done not be driven and worked to hard to see that being an issue.

 

[Skaal-tel]

Wow, why haven't I seen this thread before??

You're doing great work.

I used mike's transmission in Toronto to have a th200-4r built for my '79 camaro. He did a great job.
Barrie transmission is another good spot to check out for your axle rebuilds.. as well as the Barrie Napa engine rebuilding shop. They did my engine rebuild and balance after installing forged pistons.

That leaf spring picture from a while back is really scary! I've seen broken spring pack retainers before but never a leaf separation quite like that. I wouldn't re-use that spring pack if I were you. The test will be checking ride-height with it re-installed. Don't get them re-arched if they're too low - far too expensive to have it done properly and the cheap process doesn't last. Re-arching is for highway tractors.

You should definitely look into an HEI ignition instead of points. A lot of maintenance required on the mechanical ignitions. Several companies make HEI conversion kits, although I can't vouch for one making m38 conversions specifically.

It looks like you have things well in hand. You'll have to replace every brake line, flexible rubber hose, gasket seal and band clamp on that truck for sure. The rubber flex lines might look alright but usually the inner lining has deteriorated. Can cause a spongy pedal, can collapse when you lift the pedal.. lots of unpleasant effects on driveability. I'd recommend replacing them with Russell braided stainless lines. Not much more expensive and going to last another 40 years.

When you get to the carb rebuild don't mess about with vinegar. Find someone with an ultrasonic cleaner. I have one .. PM me if you want to use it

I have nothing else to say except GREAT work so far.. and I can't believe your buddy has a plasma cutter in his garage.. lol

 

[Hawkshadow]

MD Juan used to be known as "MD Wrong" Myself I would had rerivted crossmemebers instead of welding if you want to take into account frame flex, but no doubt the old soldier will after its done not be driven and worked to hard to see that being an issue.

Rommel Juan, the owner of MD has recently been approaching a lot of the restoration forums to seek input on their products. As a result, he has gotten valuable fit and finish feedback as well as requests for additional products. From those requests he has since started producing the collapsable door frames and rear licence plate holders.

What you can't see from the pictures of welding is that all seems have been welded, even the internal ones inside the crossmember. This will prevent flex on any axis and be more than enough to keep it together throughout the rest of her life.

I used mike's transmission in Toronto to have a th200-4r built for my '79 camaro. He did a great job.
Barrie transmission is another good spot to check out for your axle rebuilds.. as well as the Barrie Napa engine rebuilding shop. They did my engine rebuild and balance after installing forged pistons.

That leaf spring picture from a while back is really scary!

You should definitely look into an HEI ignition instead of points.

I'd recommend replacing them with Russell braided stainless lines. Not much more expensive and going to last another 40 years.

When you get to the carb rebuild don't mess about with vinegar. Find someone with an ultrasonic cleaner. I have one .. PM me if you want to use it

- I'm going to attempt the tranny rebuild solo. I'm ordering a kit from Herm (the overdrive guy) and there are some really good guides out there for the process. I have already stripped down the axles and will be rebuilding them soon with a kit ordered from kaiser willys - stay tuned!. Barrie Napa was the shop that actually rebuilt the motor - and unfortunately the same shop who forgot that 1 helicoil. The rest of the rebuild seems good - the ultimate test is yet to come.

- That leaf spring was quite something... after seeing that I decided to replace them with 4 new ones as, as you mentioned, it's more cost-effective in the long run than re-arching.

- I considered the hall-effect ignition option. They run about $160 and I may try them out later down the road. It isn't a hard swap-out and for now the $15 for new points and condenser won out.

- good point about the flex lines. I'll look in to it.

- For carb I'm considering having Toronto Carb do the work. They have considerable experience with these and the warranty may make it the best option.

Thanks all for your interest, support, and suggestions. They are greatly appreciated and have been a great help!

 

[Hawkshadow]

Time marches on and so does the progress!

After much debate I decided to go with a unique concept for the body. I approached Linex to see what they could contribute. Working with them we were able to colour match the green, and utilize a technique which would produce a much less textured coating. I had the complete underside linexed, along with typical problem rust spots such as in the toolbox, in the battery box, under the gas tank, and in the rear lamp housings. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out! It was a good investment on a replacement tub to ensure durability and longevity while still not detracting from the appearance. I also decided to have the frame done, taking great care to ensure that the frame number was left untouched. After a single coat of green on the rest of the tub, it's starting to look sharp!

The old tub acting as a shelf with a mixture of parts ready to go.

Front axle rebuild coming along:

I reconditioned the original backing plates, and received all new hardware which went together like a glove.

Not too sure about this drum.. I've never seen a balanced drum before, but this piece of metal sure is welded on there good and tight...

Front axle buttoned up. I went to re-install the steering assembly on the axle only to find the new M38 tie rods were 1/16" too large for the existing tubes. One is 3/4" and the other 11/16". I am doing research now to find if the ordered tie rods are incorrect or the existing hardware.

Rear axle almost done, just finishing the brakes to go.

I re-installed the transmission crossmember and axle bumpers. It was quite a momentous occasion seeing things being attached for once! At the end of the work day this is how everything looked. Frame: Linexed and beginning reassembly. Body: paint coat 1 applied and beginning reassembly. Front axle: buttoned up ready for install. Rear axle: Almost done. Tranny/ Transfer: Next onto the bench!

 

[Claven2]

Looking good. I can understand the Linex on the frame, but hope you don't have dimensional re-assembly issues on the tub as a result.

 

[vettes]

Great resto, your putting me to shame with the lack of pics im posting in mine lol.

 

[recce]

Very nice! Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[XRCD011]

Fine work and progress. Your going to have a great summer with that car next year. Not sure if I would go the Linex route myself but its your car as the real body metal killers are wet leaves and wet wood inside the hat channels. Just keeping the car dry and inside will ensure its around long after we are all gone. What I would suggest is run a bead of body seam sealer along the joint where the floor meets the side panels so sand, dirt and water cannot sit there. After running the bead wipe out about 90% or so and after painting you would never see it. Again great work and thanks for posting, some day I will get PB working after seeing all these projects posted here.

 

[johg2]

You are doing a great job on your M38.. for mine, a 1952 USA M38, I did a frame-on resto, most of the mechanical work done by myself (a beginner),started in 1992..I even have a VHS tape on the tranny rebuild. and Herm the overdrive guy is great to deal with, I met him several years ago and bought the overdrive unit... and I don't know if you collect other militaria but once you finish your jeep, you will WANT to add accessories to complete it.. your girl uh jeep will look even better for static/rolling displays. Have fun rebuilding and then driving her around. If you need some small parts I may have something for you.. good luck