M39 picure thread!!!

[Harry Callahan]

Well I just picked my M39's from the post office and wanted to share some quick snap shots with you guys. All have the HV magazines and two stage triggers.

Since I don't know the hole story behind these, I would like to know a few things, if someone in the "know" could help me out, I would appreciate.

First the trio, from top to bottom: no name 1968, no name 1967 and a refurbish 1944 VKT.

Looks like the '44 was refurbished in '78 by looking at the tag?

The '67 as a 9/11-1967 date on tag.

All three receivers.

The no name '68, looks like something was "removed" from the top of the receiver and a "R" was electropenciled:

The no name '67, can someone feed me on why this one doesn't have the matching serial on the receiver (the stamp fonts are also different than the matching others) and some kind of stamp on top (Finnish lion or something?):

Finally the '44:

And a few photos of the bolts.

The '68:

The '67:

And finally the '44 with russian cyrillic and a different stamp, does someone know what it means?

 

[superbee]

looks like only 7 left at trade Ex!

 

[bearhunter]

You have to admit the only thing not to like about this batch are the US required stamps near the muzzle.

Other than that they are some of the cleanest I've seen in a long time. Even the rifles that were originally brought in by International out of Montreal a few decades ago mostly ranged in condition from Fair to Very Good at best and even that was overly optimistic on the seller's part. Most had very worn and even pitted bores. Finish was anywhere from non existent to about 60%.

They were priced accordingly but still much higher than the other M91 and M91/30s being offered at the time. Biggest issue is that there just wasn't any ammo available other than extremely expensive Norma and RWS. Those same rifles have gone up 6-7 times what we paid for them at that time.

These rifles will not last much longer from Tradex or any of the other dealers that had first pick on these before they were offered to the general public. I am surprised they have moved so quickly. I didn't realize how many collectors or just people that appreciate what these rifles are and the standards they were built to.

I would look upon these as investments. Of course you should very carefully shoot them but do it sparingly and use some discretion as to how they are jammed into the safe. In the not to distant future they will be more valuable than the price/taxes/shipping included. A decade from now expect to triple the price. This is all IMHO of course.

 

[BillD]

Mine arrived from Tradex today; rifle is in excellent shape, as advertised - very nice bore with sharp rifling, no rust/pitting, bluing in fine condition, 2 stage trigger and that stock - whatever the Fins used for preservation, is simply amazing. No cosmo, just some grease between the barrel and stock; bolt was a bit sticky with that varnish like residue so that's the only item I've detail cleaned at this point. Wanted a shooter first and foremost, wasn't concerned with rarity so went for your plain jane 1942 VKT - can't wait to shoot it!

 

[Claven2]

I would like to know a few things, if someone in the "know" could help me out, I would appreciate.

The hang tags relate to inventory and inspection timings

Looks like the '44 was refurbished in '78 by looking at the tag?

Your 44 hang tag says it's a Rifle, model 39, serial 70793, bore measures 7.60mm land to land (which is .2992"), it was "manufactured" (Valmistanut is manufactured, korjannut is repaired) at arsenal AV1. Syöpaste- level of corrosion in bore: 0 the best. 3 worst allowed. 4 reject. Tarkastanut means "inspected by",followed by inspector initials. ppm is the date of last inspection, which is Nov 10, 1978 on your tag.

Strange this rifle is listed as "manufactured" vs. "repaired" - it must have undergone a significant refurbishment - is it in a post-war stock?

The '67 as a 9/11-1967 date on tag.

Your 67 has a 7.61mm bore (.2996"), it was repaired at arsenal AV1. It lists the serial number as 366563. Last inspected April 11, 1976 - probably just after it was assembled. Huomautuksia= additional comments. I can't fully translate it, but it's something like "cold targeted incrementally at 200m, 150 mills." - I think it means the point of impact shifted when last test-fired at 200m by 15cm when the barrel got hot, but that's just an educated guess.


The no name '68, looks like something was "removed" from the top of the receiver and a "R" was electropenciled:

This was the Finnish arsenal removing the imperial eagle.

The no name '67, can someone feed me on why this one doesn't have the matching serial on the receiver (the stamp fonts are also different than the matching others) and some kind of stamp on top (Finnish lion or something?):

When the serials are stamped like this, the finns sometimes did that in finland at certain points during their use of the moist rifles. In this case, when they assembled your no-maker rifle, they used a receiver that had been on another Finnish rifle previously. Under Canadian law, that older leftover trial number is legally the new serial number - lol.

And finally the '44 with russian cyrillic and a different stamp, does someone know what it means?

That is an early Izhevsk bolt, pre-WW1. They often had inspection stamps dating to original manufacture in this location. Nothing special and fairly common on Finn rifles that used older imperial parts.

I provided you some answers in red.

 

[Claven2]

For those interested, here are some common Finnish hang tag translations. All hang tags a repost-war and relate to the last time the rifle was manufactured, inspected, repaired or rebuilt.

Kohditettu= sighted in date
Kohdistaja= who sighted it in
Tathtayspiste konekohdistuksessa=aiming point during machine sight in
ampumataisyys 30m= shooting distance 30m
Tahtayspiste ratakohdistuksessa 150m taulun keskipisteessa, ampumaet isyys 150m= aiming point at range sight in, center of 150m target, shooting range 150 meters.

Iskemakeskipiste siirretaan all olevaan taulun= average center point of hits is marked

ASE= weapon [7,62mm KIV 30]
No.= serial number
Kal.= measured bore diameter [7,63mm]
Karito= forcing cone/breech
Syöpaste- level of corrosion in bore: 0 the best. 3 worst allowed. 4 reject.
Valmistanut= manufactured by
Korjannut= repaired at arms depot
Tarkastanut= checked/inspected by
Pvm= date of inspection
Huomautuksia= additional comments

 

[Harry Callahan]

Man, your knowledge on these is awesome.

Thanks again!

 

[Harry Callahan]

Yes the '44 is in a post-war stock, does it mean something special?

 

[Claven2]

Yes the '44 is in a post-war stock, does it mean something special?

No, only that they changed enough from the original 1944 rifle when they overhauled it that they considered it to be "remanufactured" vice "repaired". Makes no difference in quality or value of the rifle today, a refurb VKT is a nice rifle. I suspect the need for a new stock and probably some other parts was enough to make the difference in classification on the hang tag.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Great, it literally looks like it was manufactured yesterday. This particular '44 is going to a good friend of mine who wanted it the minute I told him that I bought it. I think that he will be very pleased with it.

 

[Wormald1995]

Definitely some nice looking rifles on this thread!! Enjoy your new toys boys im sure they will treat you well

 

[Claven2]

Definitely some nice looking rifles on this thread!! Enjoy your new toys boys im sure they will treat you well

Well there are 5 left at Tradex and 4 or 5 left at Weimajack. Then there will only be the secondary market. It's not too late - you too can be a cool kid and own one (or two, or three)

Edit: Holy cow! P&S Just listed 44 new M39's. I guess Jacques was holding out for the less expensive offerings here and at Tradex to dry up. His all look to be VKTs but they are now all priced $950-995 each. A mix of wartime and post-war stocks.

Unusual for Jean, but none of them have photos yet.

I guess that means the import was more around 140 rifles in size.

So I guess my rifles are already appreciating in value...

 

[Claven2]

Public service notice for the day. P&s has Finn slings for $25. Also Liberty tree has several sling types, all Finn, as well as muzzle covers, oil bottles and other bits and bobs for these. Not likely they will last long. Now is the time to accessorize.

 

[EHG]

Public service notice for the day. P&s has Finn slings for $25. Also Liberty tree has several sling types, all Finn, as well as muzzle covers, oil bottles and other bits and bobs for these. Not likely they will last long. Now is the time to accessorize.

10/4 on that. Sling and muzzle cap ordered before they are gone. My VTK 1944 aarrived in the mail yesterday, but can't get home till Saturday. Will post pics soon

 

[cigar_man]

...

 

[BillD]

Took mine apart again for a complete cleaning this evening (was going to wait, but hey - it was just sitting there calling to me LOL); found a few more markings that were buried under the grease and unseen on first inspection. Looks like the receiver is a 1915 Izhevsk; in the photo between the 19 and 15 is the Izhevsk "arrow". Bolt from earlier pic has the same. The rifle really is in great shape; the bore was easy to clean - took little effort to end up with unsoiled patches and the bore is now nice and shiney along with good rifling. The stock is basically flawless, but it is a post war one and a 1979 refurb at that, so it probably hasn't seen any hard use. It is shimmed fore and aft, 3 shims in front and 2 at the rear. Gotta love the (IMO) beautiful, mechanical simplicity of these old rifles too .

 

[Claven2]

Are all those accessories WW2 configuration?

A Rule of thum Green slings are usually post war and often in excellent shape. Brown slings with square buckle are wartime, used on many Finn rifle models (M27, M39, etc.). Oval buckle is pre-m39, unless on a depot-built web sling or a late green leather sling - then it's been recycled during war or later. Not sure on the web type m39 slings. I've never had one, but they are supposedly depot-built "ersatz" slings form the war.

For muzzle caps, I have examples of all of them. Not sure on the vintage of each type but intuitively the steel ones are likely wartime as brass would have been rationed.

 

[Claven2]

Took mine apart again for a complete cleaning this evening (was going to wait, but hey - it was just sitting there calling to me LOL); found a few more markings that were buried under the grease and unseen on first inspection. Looks like the receiver is a 1915 Izhevsk; in the photo between the 19 and 15 is the Izhevsk "arrow". Bolt from earlier pic has the same. The rifle really is in great shape; the bore was easy to clean - took little effort to end up with unsoiled patches and the bore is now nice and shiney along with good rifling. The stock is basically flawless, but it is a post war one and a 1979 refurb at that, so it probably hasn't seen any hard use. It is shimmed fore and aft, 3 shims in front and 2 at the rear. Gotta love the (IMO) beautiful, mechanical simplicity of these old rifles too .

That is also a Sestroryetsk arrow. The early Izhevsk arrow is always strung through a bow.

 

[BillD]

That is also a Sestroryetsk arrow. The early Izhevsk arrow is always strung through a bow.

So, no bow makes this a Sestroryetsk arsenal action, along with the bolt? Good to know, thanks!

 

[Claven2]

So, no bow makes this a Sestroryetsk arsenal action, along with the bolt? Good to know, thanks!

Correct.

Izhevsk first used a knocked arrow in a bow, and later a plain arrow inside a triangle.