Magpul Art of the Dynamic Handgun

Status
Not open for further replies.
What did the aerial ops teach?

Shooting from a helicopter, as well as other heli operations.

EDITED to add:

Just watched the trailer for Aerial Operations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaC4hrTbwIY&feature=player_embedded) and noticed that the helicopters they are using are from a Canadian Heli company called HeliQwest! That's pretty cool! HelQwest has been flying for the company that I work for for years. I'll have to see if I can find out who the pilots were that flew for that vid. Small world....
 
Last edited:
I watched the Carbine one a while ago, disc one was pretty neat, number 2 got kind of "tacticool".

I'm pretty excited for the pistol one though, and I'm even more stoked for the shotguns.
 
So I work in TV and I am a bit bias... the first one Dynamic Carbine was rough... sound, exposure, soft focus ect... stuff that we are paid every day to notice and fix... the later ones have certainly upped their game as they progressed... I still think technically they can do better... the mic placement is still poor based on the fact they are shooting and moving so much...
With that being said Legion Productions seems to have done some EPKs, short films and the Magpul Videos And Randori Films is Travis Haley and Magpul owned... The problem with this new media thing that's happening now is you have these companies that do everything... they own the gear they hire the people... this means most of the time the gear is cheap... just enough to get it done... for instance the transmitters that they are wearing on their belts are by no means a broadcast standard... they are cheap, functional and sound as such...
I am bias becasue as I said I work in TV on the technical side of things so I can't watch TV or movies without critiquing...
 
I am bias becasue as I said I work in TV on the technical side of things so I can't watch TV or movies without critiquing...

That reminds me of a buddy that's a photographer...can't look at a magazine without saying something about the lighting, texturing, etc. of the pictures hahaha
 
noticed that the helicopters they are using are from a Canadian Heli company called HeliQwest! That's pretty cool! HelQwest has been flying for the company that I work for for years. I'll have to see if I can find out who the pilots were that flew for that vid. Small world....

I guarantee those were some of the coolest days of flying those guys had had in a loooong time :D
We Canadian pilots don't EVER get to do sweet stuff like that, unless you fly for a police department, or the CF... or for film & tv of course :p
 
I've had a lot of training on the job, and this video alone blows it out of the water. Costa really knows his stuff.

The video wont do you any good unless you go out and put this into practical application though.
 
Right. Because producing professional content costs money, and they do it to make money, to put it bluntly. Stealing that content is wrong and discourages quality content. If you want to see the kind of quality instructional video you get for free, stick to YouTube.

your gonna stand up and tell us you dont and never have downloaded a single thing?
 
I'll post this little tidbit for now. I'll give a more detailed description later. Honestly, the videos were rather boring and a good portion of what they preach/teach is geared towards specific makes or models of firearms and the techniques were sh*t. For example, the 45' slam on the magazine to induce an "auto load". They(Costa/Haley) admit it doesn't work with all handguns and takes practice to get it "just right". Well, if they're so hell bent on consistency, efficiency, reality then why are they teaching methods that are neither consistency or efficient?? I especially like the notion that one is to observe the pistol and slide location by tilting the pistol up 10' degrees. Fine and dandy if its high noon and no one is trying to shoot you from 15 feet away. By all means, take the time to visually identify a problem that can most likely be solved with an IMMEDIATE ACTION of Tap rack. Another gem is their method of solving a failure to go into battery. For some of us the failure to fire(the click) is solved with an IMMEDIATE ACTION, meaning that no other information input is required to execute a solution, hence immediate action. You get the click, you tap rack and keep moving, no big deal. In Costa/Haley school you need to observe the slide position by tilting the gun up, or not depending on the stoppage(go figure). You notice the slide is not fully in battery, so the solution is to strike the back of the slide forcing it into battery. So if you had a split casing or some other debris lodged in the chamber you've now forced the round in as well. I'm thinking extraction and subsequently ejection might become an issue. This "solution" is eerily similar to slapping the forward assist on an AR. If the round won't feed properly, eject it and go again. Of course they don't show that technique on exposed hammer pistols, nor do they demonstrate how to execute such solution with one hand which I personally would love to see.

I will give them credit where its due. The discussion in the beginning of the first disc about proper grip, trigger finger placement, squared stance. and follow through is bang on. Very well explained and demonstrated, but nothing you can't find at any number of reputable schools many of which have been around long before Magpul.

There's no secret magic to shooting a handgun, or any firearm for that matter. Its about understanding the fundamentals, and striving to be consistent from shot to shot. Shooting is a discipline, and it takes a lot of it to be successful. Some good content, a lot of gamer based crap and absolutely not a replacement for hands on training...

(ok so there's most of my thoughts on the series)

TDC
 
Magpul teaches a way, not the way, its good to get input from as many sources as possible and pick and choose what works for you.

I used to be a fan of immediate/remedial action w/o checking the chamber. Until I got a stovepipe on my C8 under the sort of stress that doesn't come on a civilian range, and thinking I was out of ammo, I did a speed reload instead of clearing it, which took more time then if I took the extra .2 second to check the chamber. *Speed Reload* "Nothing" "F*CK!?" Look at it, hey a stove pipe! tap rack roll, BANG! Case in point, I used to rely on that "feeling" of the bolt locking back in the buffer tube to reload, doesn't work so well under extreme stress.

The new "vogue" way of reloading is racking the charging handle on the C8, doesnt work so well wearing plates and a full combat load if your not a 6foot ape, Shortstroking the gun becomes an issue (which was supposed to be what it remedies). I switched back to using the bolt release (sans forward assist) on workup training and didn't have any short stroking issues. Using the bolt release is faster and I did it for years before THE gunfighter way came out so it was easy to switch back to.

Ultimately, pick and choose what works for you. Just because something works well for someone else but its different doesn't mean it is wrong.
 
Magpul teaches a way, not the way, its good to get input from as many sources as possible and pick and choose what works for you.

I used to be a fan of immediate/remedial action w/o checking the chamber. Until I got a stovepipe on my C8 under the sort of stress that doesn't come on a civilian range, and thinking I was out of ammo, I did a speed reload instead of clearing it, which took more time then if I took the extra .2 second to check the chamber. *Speed Reload* "Nothing" "F*CK!?" Look at it, hey a stove pipe! tap rack roll, BANG! Case in point, I used to rely on that "feeling" of the bolt locking back in the buffer tube to reload, doesn't work so well under extreme stress.

The new "vogue" way of reloading is racking the charging handle on the C8, doesnt work so well wearing plates and a full combat load if your not a 6foot ape, Shortstroking the gun becomes an issue (which was supposed to be what it remedies). I switched back to using the bolt release (sans forward assist) on workup training and didn't have any short stroking issues. Using the bolt release is faster and I did it for years before THE gunfighter way came out so it was easy to switch back to.

Ultimately, pick and choose what works for you. Just because something works well for someone else but its different doesn't mean it is wrong.


I agree that Magpul offers a way, not the way. That being said, their methods are a non starter for several reasons. As I mentioned in my previous post, a lot of what they teach is system specific(more so for rifles than handguns) and a lot of the techniques are not 100% effective. If they're so hell bent on preaching Consistency, Efficiency, Reality then why teach several methods of solving the same problem, and especially several methods that don't work for all makes/models and shooters?

As for your stovepipe here is how I see it based on my opinion and my methods(I say my methods because they are the ones I use. I did not create/invent/fabricate or otherwise participate in their coming to be.)

A failure to eject will not permit the trigger to function, you will not experience the "click" of a typical type one stoppage. The dead trigger is indicative of two possible scenarios. The bolt is out of battery(locked to the rear or not it doesn't matter), or the hammer has not reset.

You chose to believe it was an empty gun and went to the speed reload. I suspect your speed reload involved inserting a fresh mag and slapping the bolt catch which would explain why you didn't solve the initial stoppage, the stovepipe. Had you executed an immediate action of TAP TUG RACK you would have cleared the stoppage and continued firing.

Observing the chamber only works if there is enough ambient light for the cones of your eye(retina actually) to process the high resolution image needed to diagnose the stovepipe. The cones of the eye are great for details and colours but suffer greatly under dimished light. The rods of your eyes, located on the outer edges/peripheral of the retina are far more light sensitive which accounts for ones natural night vision, but offer little in the way of detail. Add to that the fact that you are removing your eyes from the threat or threat area. You can also add "Hick's law" which states that for every additional option in problem solving, ones time required to choose the correct course of action doubles. This is important, observing the chamber and determining the stoppage then searching through your brains "files" for the right solution is a cognitive thought process that will take exponentially more time than an immediate action which requires no further input/stimuli before being executed. Like stumbling off the curb. Once your body recognizes it is off balance it executes an automatic response to recover. It does not seek more input/stimuli before choosing a course of action. Should you fall to the ground you are now forced to process more input/stimuli to choose a correct action for recovery(getting up).

Running the charge handle for reloads is the only 100% effective means for charging a firearm. All charge handles on firearms serve only one purpose, to charge the firearm. A bolt catch does not always charge the firearm, it is dependent on bolt position to be effective. You stated you no longer rely on the feeling of a bolt locking to the rear to indicate an empty gun. So why rely on the bolt locking back to facilitate and validate the use of the bolt catch?

Running the CH does not prevent short stroking, it never has and never will. Those who believe that it does do not understand the function of the CH and/or the bolt catch. Running the CH(properly) ensures maximum force when manually feeding the rifle. The down side is the potential to short stroke the system, which can be overcome with repetitions and training. Even if an individual were to short stroke the rifle, the result will be a "click" or type one stoppage which requires an immediate action drill of TAP TUG RACK. Oddly, TAP TUG RACK is exactly the same process as loading the rifle. Grasping a large CH does not require fine motor skills which are absent under extreme stress and/or restrictive clothing. All semi auto rifles have a charge handle so the manual of arms is the same regardless of make or model(not all semi auto rifles have last round hold opens and they don't always work). The location of the CH may differ but the mental process of loading and clearing type one and type two malfunctions is the same. What's even more odd about using the CH, is that the mental process is carried over to handguns as well. Replace CH with slide and the process is identical. Odd....


Running the CH/slide may not be the fastest method, but it is 100% effective for all shooters, on most makes/models under most circumstances. The same cannot be said for the use of the BC, BAD lever, observing the chamber prior to corrective actions, slapping the back of the slide, or the 45' degree slam of a magazine as a method of "autoloading" a pistol.

Run what you want for methods, but the most important factor is its effectiveness. If the method doesn't work 100% of the time, its not worth relying on. A faster method that fails 15% of the time is not effective nor efficient.

TDC
 
Nice to see you back, btw, if no one questions things we don't advance, we just run in circles.

Thanks. The break was nice, allowed me time to do some other stuff, and collect a pile of stuff I need to sell.:D ( Anyone feel free to contact me if you want to know what I'm moving)

TDC
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom