Magpul b.a.d. Lever

[Grunt21]

My point was that no action is taken until the position of the bolt is verified, the old cant,look, and #### drill. Even when conducting drills in a tactical environment you check the position of the bolt first, if it is fully/partially forward you pull the action to the rear using the CH, if it is fully to the rear dump the empty mag (99.99% of the time) insert fresh mag and hit the bolt release or use CH.

Wouldnt diagnosing the stoppage take additional time, and be difficult particularly under stress or low light conditions?

What I use is an immediate action drill of:

Push pull (the magazine), rack, roll (the carbine to the right, ejection port down), go. This will clear type 1 (failure to fire) and type 2 (failure to eject) malfunctions, no thinking or assessing the bolt position required.

If this doesnt work (ie a type 3 malfunction, double feed or failure to extract) I then carry out remedial action:

find cover/take a knee, lock the bolt to the rear, remove the magazine, finger f*ck the action to remove any empty casings or live rounds, cycle the action 3x (to remove a stuck case from the chamber), insert a fresh magazine, push pull, rack the action and go.

I find this works much better then the: lock the action the the rear, remove the magazine, and shake the weapon while praying the casing stuck in the chamber will magically fall out

These two drills will clear all stoppages with no assessment or thinking required and work on everything from the AR to the Ruger 1022, CZ58, M1 Carbine, Sig 550, norc M14 etc etc.

I do admit hitting the bolt catch is faster when doing a speed reload but my small caveman brain finds it easier to rack the CH as I prefer to rack the slide on my Glock, it keeps things simple.

 

[TDC]

Grunt has described exactly what I'm talking about.

I disagree with observing the status/position of the bolt prior to any action. IA's are immediate actions because they require no further input aside from the initial failure to fire. The vast majority of "clicks" will be the result of unseated magazines. Executing your IA of TTR should be done without hesitation. Does anyone observe the E-port on their pistol prior to executing a TTR IA? I doubt it.

If a class 3 stoppage occurs you will execute a remedial action, "unload, reload". After clearing the stoppage and cycling the action repeatedly the bolt carrier will most likely be forward in battery. Some may say that they lock the bolt carrier to the rear after such action, fair enough. Again, by running the CH the position of the bolt carrier is irrelevant during all operations.

Minimal manual of arms. The physical actions required to achieve a desired result will vary from system to system. The advantage is that the though process is the same. Loading your VZ, PE90, Tavor, AR, TP9, SKS, M14, Glock, SIG, HK, Kimber etc is the same. Insert magazine, cycle the action.

TDC

 

[Reaper]

Grunt has described exactly what I'm talking about.

I disagree with observing the status/position of the bolt prior to any action. IA's are immediate actions because they require no further input aside from the initial failure to fire. The vast majority of "clicks" will be the result of unseated magazines. Executing your IA of TTR should be done without hesitation. Does anyone observe the E-port on their pistol prior to executing a TTR IA? I doubt it.

If a class 3 stoppage occurs you will execute a remedial action, "unload, reload". After clearing the stoppage and cycling the action repeatedly the bolt carrier will most likely be forward in battery. Some may say that they lock the bolt carrier to the rear after such action, fair enough. Again, by running the CH the position of the bolt carrier is irrelevant during all operations.

Minimal manual of arms. The physical actions required to achieve a desired result will vary from system to system. The advantage is that the though process is the same. Loading your VZ, PE90, Tavor, AR, TP9, SKS, M14, Glock, SIG, HK, Kimber etc is the same. Insert magazine, cycle the action.

TDC

If after executing a reload and you get a click instead of a bang, IA will solve it, however a click instead of a bang during a string of shots requires something more than an IA to remedy ,you have to diagnose the problem,perform remedial actions or transition to the secondary, you can TTR on an empty mag all day and do nothing,you have to observe the position of the bolt/look into the ejection port to sort out the stoppage.

This is getting to be a pointless discussion BTW

 

[Slavex]

and I'm going to side with the guy who actually does this #### for a living.
as for the price, I thought I saw the Magpul one for $40 USD, I guess it was actually CDN.

 

[TDC]

If after executing a reload and you get a click instead of a bang, IA will solve it, however a click instead of a bang during a string of shots requires something more than an IA to remedy ,you have to diagnose the problem,perform remedial actions or transition to the secondary, you can TTR on an empty mag all day and do nothing,you have to observe the position of the bolt/look into the ejection port to sort out the stoppage.

This is getting to be a pointless discussion BTW

I disagree. A click mid magazine could be the result of a tilted follower or otherwise inop magazine. It could also be an empty mag that failed to hold open. If your IA TTR doesn't solve the issue, then remedial action is necessary. The second click(and the first one) is a clear sign the bolt carrier is in battery which negates the need to observe the chamber. Reload the rifle with a fresh magazine will solve the problem. Again, we're now reloading with the bolt carrier forward in battery.

As you mention a click after a reload will indeed be solved by TTR. My question is why electively risk such an situation when it can be avoided 100% of the time by using the CH???

The IA TTR is executed twice. Should it fail the second time then remedial action is necessary. Remedial action involves direct diagnosis of the stoppage prior to action. IA's require no input aside from the initial failure to fire.

TDC

 

[V29189***]

The sole purpose of this item, is to operate the bolt catch while leaving your trigger hand on the firearm, therefore maintaining control.


For that PURPOSE - I would like one too.

 

[Farmboy]

huh

 

[KevinB]

I don't subscribe to looking at the bolt unless my IA has failed.

I reload with my thumb on the bolt catch as I have rammed the mag home, and my thumb is right there -- going to the charging handle is wasted effort.

Transitions -- under 25m definitely, under 50 - maybe, under 100 depends -- keep in mind a handgun at 100m is better than an inop rifle/carbine --

I like the idea of being able to lock the bolt while my primary (right) hand is still on the pistol grip -- I'm determined to alter an AR to do it. The BAD solves that -- I'm not keen on it running thru the trigger guard - but it does clear the other side.

 

[Mikjk]

I like how my Phase 5 Tactical EBRv2 works. For locking the bolt to the rear, it makes it a lot easier. The B.A.D will do the same thing... I just don't like how it screws onto the bolt catch.

No difference in speed reloads for me using the original bolt catch position or the index finger release of the B.A.D. / EBRv2. I have lots of reps hitting the original bolt catch position, and the EBRv2 allows me to do this, so I'll stick to this method.

I see the B.A.D. being very useful in clearing double feed malfunctions while conducting disabled drills.

 

[Reaper]

At the risk of continue spinning wheels here and going around in circles

"As you mention a click after a reload will indeed be solved by TTR. My question is why electively risk such an situation when it can be avoided 100% of the time by using the CH??"

Using the CH does not guarantee anything in this case,there is no chance that a round will chamber 100% of the time regardless the use of the cocking handle or BC. It's a moot point.

AAAAAnyways, I think this discussion is getting a little long winded,please contact me off line to carry on and not dominate the discussion with our side track.

 

[Miraclejoe]

AAAAAnyways, I think this discussion is getting a little long winded,please contact me off line to carry on and not dominate the discussion with our side track.

Sorry to ignore this advice, but:

I thought I was getting pretty slick, while on a course this summer. Everything was going fine and I was shooting well enough to feel pretty good about myself.

Then this happened:

It took me an eternity to fix the problem because I did not take the basic step of looking at my BCG before choosing/performing a malfunction drill.

 

[alexD92]

What was the round count on that bolt? Did your firing pin break too? Seem like an extra bolt is something to keep in the oh #### kit.

 

[Miraclejoe]

What was the round count on that bolt? Did your firing pin break too? Seem like an extra bolt is something to keep in the oh s**t kit.

Less then 6000 rounds on a 14.5" Armalite. The bolt was the only thing damaged. And yes, an extra bolt should be part of your AR15 kit. I did not have one at the time. I now have a full BCG back up, as well as a second rifle. That is why we take courses, to learn those lessons...

 

[cobalt545]

I'm considering buying a couple of the B.A.D. levers. One for my Stag rifle and another for my rifle at work. I'll try them out in both a sterile range environment and in a "work" environment where I might actually get a double feed stoppage more often.

 

[OZZ]

I'm considering buying a couple of the B.A.D. levers. One for my Stag rifle and another for my rifle at work. I'll try them out in both a sterile range environment and in a "work" environment where I might actually get a double feed stoppage more often.

your work enviroment? Unless your in Afgahnistan where do you work that you fire more rounds than at the range?

 

[Paulinski]

Sorry to ignore this advice, but:

I thought I was getting pretty slick, while on a course this summer. Everything was going fine and I was shooting well enough to feel pretty good about myself.

Then this happened:

It took me an eternity to fix the problem because I did not take the basic step of looking at my BCG before choosing/performing a malfunction drill.

Car gas system beats the hell out of the bolt.

 

[cobalt545]

your work enviroment? Unless your in Afgahnistan where do you work that you fire more rounds than at the range?

I'm regular force infantry. Firing live on a field firing range is a lot dirtier and rapid than at my gun club. No 5 round mags and you occasionally have to fire on automatic. I figure that would be a good way to test out IAs and stoppages when they occur.

 

[OZZ]

I'm regular force infantry. Firing live on a field firing range is a lot dirtier and rapid than at my gun club. No 5 round mags and you occasionally have to fire on automatic. I figure that would be a good way to test out IAs and stoppages when they occur.

Got ya, you mean the millitary doesnt follow the 5rd mag limits?? Does the CFC/QDR know about this?

 

[Deckard]

Anyone comment about southpaw use? It seems it would speed up loading from locked open position.

 

[yohann160]

Got ya, you mean the millitary doesnt follow the 5rd mag limits?? Does the CFC/QDR know about this?

Giggle giggle

I caught one of their agents in the vault the other day, he was checking one mag after the other to see it if was pinned. By the look on his face someone is in big trouble!