Makasi or Carmel?

Which one did you order (for people who put in pre-orders) - Carmel or Makasi

  • Brigade Manufacturing Makasi

    Votes: 53 36.8%

  • IWI Carmel

    Votes: 68 47.2%

  • Originally pre-ordered one, then switched to the other, or cancelled altogether

    Votes: 12 8.3%

  • BOTH!

    Votes: 18 12.5%
  • Total voters
    144
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Bartok5 said:
I think that you are exaggerating the documented "shortcomings" of the Brigade Makasi. The QC issues with the Handguard screw misalignment, the Charging Handle impingement and Picatinny/MLOC tolerances are admittedly real on the US Restricted versions currently being imported by IRG. That said, the manufacturer claims that those issues have been addressed in the forthcoming NR shipments to Canada. Even if some of the tolerance issues persist, I can easily live with them if I must.

The Makasi's accuracy is fine at 2 MOA with bulk range fodder, so I don't know where you are getting a lack of accuracy from. Compared to what? Similarly, a single report of reliability issues does not constitute a trend and warranty service should not be a concern with Gravel as the Distributor. So that leaves the QC issues, which the manufacturer claims have already been sorted with the Canadian shipments. Based on that, I see no compelling reason to second-guess my original attraction to the Makasi's modularity, partial AR-compatibility for critical spare parts, short-stroke operating system and attractive appearance.
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My understanding of the accuracy of the rifle isn't first hand, I'm citing it from the comprehensive range review of a restricted version that was posted somewhere on CGN by a member. In that range review, the fellow was getting 6 or 7 MoA with ball range ammo. Not 2 MoA. And that's when it would actually feed, fire, and eject which was very intermittent. It could have been a bad barrel I suppose, but his example didn't actually start to group until he tested match ammo (factory). Then (at a cost of what, $2 or $3 a round?) be began getting near 2 MoA. Again, if the gun chose to run.

I'm not going to pay $3K for an unreliable 7 MoA rifle that has fitment issues to boot, only to then have to add stock, handguard, muzzle device etc., on it. Hard no.

As before, I had pre-ordered the Makasi, was quite excited to learn of the RCMP ruling on the platform and was hoping that I could actually have something reliable to burn my stockpile of 5.56 (which is burning a hole in my pocket for reasons I can't explain). But several unbiased reviews, coupled with my own impression of the owner had me tap out.

Don't misunderstand, I hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong about this. I hope they are wonderful once they get here and give everyone Singer type reliability. Gawd knows you're paying for it. You deserve it. We all do.

Right now, I'm banking on the OIC being deemed unconstitutional, and that will open the floodgates of alternatives once again.
 
Painkillers said:
My understanding of the accuracy of the rifle isn't first hand, I'm citing it from the comprehensive range review of a restricted version that was posted somewhere on CGN by a member. In that range review, the fellow was getting 6 or 7 MoA with ball range ammo. Not 2 MoA. And that's when it would actually feed, fire, and eject which was very intermittent. It could have been a bad barrel I suppose, but his example didn't actually start to group until he tested match ammo (factory). Then (at a cost of what, $2 or $3 a round?) be began getting near 2 MoA. Again, if the gun chose to run.

I'm not going to pay $3K for an unreliable 7 MoA rifle that has fitment issues to boot, only to then have to add stock, handguard, muzzle device etc., on it. Hard no.

As before, I had pre-ordered the Makasi, was quite excited to learn of the RCMP ruling on the platform and was hoping that I could actually have something reliable to burn my stockpile of 5.56 (which is burning a hole in my pocket for reasons I can't explain). But several unbiased reviews, coupled with my own impression of the owner had me tap out.

Don't misunderstand, I hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong about this. I hope they are wonderful once they get here and give everyone Singer type reliability. Gawd knows you're paying for it. You deserve it. We all do.

Right now, I'm banking on the OIC being deemed unconstitutional, and that will open the floodgates of alternatives once again.
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Once again, you are basing your understanding of the rifle's accuracy on that same lone rifle that suffered the reliability issues - in other words, the one and only "lemon" reported to date. Multiple other reviewers have reported 2 MOA with bulk range ammo or slightly less accuracy than an equivalent AR15, which is understandable given the Makasi's short-stroke piston operation. The Makasi is definitely NOT a 7 MOA rifle, so again you are drawing exaggerated negative conclusions from a single, tainted source.

It doesn't matter to me that you have switched your preference from the Makasi to the Carmel. I could honestly care less, as I believe that both platforms are going to provide their owners with ample enjoyment and pride of ownership. At the end of the day it matters not a whit which rifle any of us chooses, as both have their strengths and weaknesses. What does matter to me however, is one potential choice getting an undeserved bad rap based on a test sample of one "lemon" whose performance contradicted all other (positive) reviews. That is simply not fair to the Makasi or Brigade Manufacturing. Why not wait and see how the Canadian 18.5" rifles perform before writing-off the platform, eh?

I too remain cautiously optimistic regarding the CCFR's Supreme Court Appeal. I am sitting on multiple AR15s along with examples of just about every alternative platform available as of 2020. I would very much like to use my several hundred thousand dollars worth of personal property once again as opposed to staring at it all collecting dust. Let's all hope for the best possible outcome. It is high time that we won a meaningful victory!
 
I suspect once the Makasi NRs land as long as rifles are working out of the box with few hiccups, all a sudden people will be flocking back. Most people will overlook the rail/mlok dimension and even forgive the alignment. Most of the post 2020 and 2024 people will be dying to get anything that remotely look/shoot like something their favorite social influencers on youtube/IG have and they watch this stuff daily hoping to pump out rounds as fast as guys like GB ( and they all shoot the most popular rifle in the US). This is not me being sarcastic about influencers, it is my assessment of how the market works and the audiences will act.

I am saying this with authority, friend of mine saying no more semi who shot 10 rounds off a makasi, he went straight to the IRG site hunting for a 10" version. Basically it reminded him of his good old begone rifle.

Carmel and Makai, they both will be the biggest hits. The people who said no now are just cutting down their own time of enjoyment while the clock is running.
 
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Don't support Israel or the US and buy something that is a lot less likely to be Prohib in the future. Buy Canadian. Buy MRA Renegade.

Get some healthy arm exercise thrown in for good measure free of charge! Save money on the purchase price for more ammo!
 
55recce said:
Don't support Israel or the US and buy something that is a lot less likely to be Prohib in the future. Buy Canadian. Buy MRA Renegade.

Get some healthy arm exercise thrown in for good measure free of charge! Save money on the purchase price for more ammo!
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Thanks for the advice. Go back to colouring or just eat the crayons.
 
Bartok5 said:
Both rifles appear to be a solid choice, so it is really apples to oranges in terms of which you prefer based on their respective strengths and weaknesses as detailed in existing and forthcoming reviews and reports. The Brigade Manufacturing Makasi may require a 200-round break-in period before its Bolt Catch retains the Bolt on the last round. It may also suffer from minor QC issues depending on whether or not the Handguard misalignment and Charging Handle impingement have been addressed prior to the 18.5" Barreled models hitting Canadian shelves. The IWI Carmel will offer reliable operation from the outset, however this rifle's excessive weight, tall height over bore, bulky polymer form-factor, all-proprietary parts and lack of appealing aesthetics must also be taken into full account when deciding between the two rifles.

Both platforms will ultimately deliver reliable performance with acceptable utility rifle accuracy, however those less familiar with the rifles' respective operating systems should perhaps gravitate towards the "out of the box" ready Carmel. The Makasi on the other hand, ought appeal to the more advanced "tinkerers" who will best appreciate its AR15-compatible Trigger Mechanism, Safety, complete Bolt and the rifle's Picatinny Buttstock attachment system. The Makasi is by far the more upgradable rifle, whereas the high proprietary parts-count on the Carmel seriously limits what one can do to tweak that rifle and make it "their own". That said, the Carmel's proprietary Trigger is apparently quite good and unlike the Makasi's mil-spec unit should require no immediate upgrade from the factory.

In many cases, the decision will boil down to which "look" the prospective owner prefers. The appearance of the Makasi seems to appeal to the most potential owners, but there is nothing particularly horrible about the Carmel if you don't mind the somewhat bulky form factor. Either way, both rifles ought to please their new owners when they arrive. Semi-auto, 5.56mm "utility rifles" will once again hit the ranges and crown land, where they rightfully belong. In the end that is what truly matters!

FWIW, I will be going with the Makasi. I am prone to "tinkering" with my rifles and the Makasi looks like the perfect platform for incessant upgraders such as myself....
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Brigade did make an Instagram post acknowledging the QC issues, so hopefully that's sorted by the time the first shipments arrive.
 
Tendies said:
Brigade did make an Instagram post acknowledging the QC issues, so hopefully that's sorted by the time the first shipments arrive.
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I don't have Instantgram, but I would think that is a positive development. Many manufacturers would not public accept responsibility for QC issues - they may simply fix them without announcement. If this is what is delaying the shipments, I am totally good with that. It gives me more time to hock my body parts for cash (though old man wrinkly biceps and pecks don't fetch much) to pay for these things...
 
I cancelled my Carmels and kept the Makasis. I don't care about little troubles with them. Hell, they're going to cerakote before I even see them, so they'll be gone over and reassembled. I like the modularity of the Makasi way more than the optic-only customization of the Carmel.
 
the whole political thing for me is non sense, I support neither sides. Remember: SKSs were made in Soviet ( now Russia ) and China. At least Carmel is made in US by IWI US, not Israel. I cancelled my Makasi because of QC problems. Unless the manufacturer actually does something about it, I will wait until the first shipment of NR on Canadian's hands.

For now, Carmel is the better option between these two for me.
 
ryuflatron said:
the whole political thing for me is non sense, I support neither sides. Remember: SKSs were made in Soviet ( now Russia ) and China. At least Carmel is made in US by IWI US, not Israel. I cancelled my Makasi because of QC problems. Unless the manufacturer actually does something about it, I will wait until the first shipment of NR on Canadian's hands.

For now, Carmel is the better option between these two for me.
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Right?

Look how many housewares in your house are made in China.

That makes you a CCP supporter, by the same logic.
 
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