Marksmanship/proficiency of average hunter...

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I actually try to not shoot off the bench except for zeroing load tests etc. I shoot mostly from feild positions & I have found that alot of offhand shooting even with the 22 can make the rest of your offhand shooting improve without breaking the bank. but there is no substitute for shooting some practice with your larger rifles
Regards Tony
 
OK look at it this way,the killing area of a Moose is about the size of a 45 gal drum.Can you hit a 45 gallon drum at 300 yds?????? or the killing area of a deer is about the size of a 5 gallon pail,can you hit it at 300yds??? It ain't easy!!! especially offhand.I have alot of horses at the farm and use a range finder to see distances, then "dry-fire" to see sight picure. At 300yds a horse isn't that big, and its close to a moose in size. I always use a good "steady" for my hunts and won't try long(300yds+++) without one . Just my opinion JITC
 
Most of the deer and moose shot by me were by shooting off a "bench rest" i.e. shooting off "sand bags" on a stable platform....some jury rigged .
Most shooting is done from heated elevated shooting shacks....I have access to 6 or 7 in different locations .
When walking(I try to keep this to a minimum....but then again am pushing 70) I carry a set of home made bi-pods, based on Varmint Al's Bi-fur Pod .
I use a range finder, 10 power binoculars and have a 4 x 12 Leupold scope on my 280 Remington .
With these aids I have shot many animals with a few in excess of 450 yds . away.
I have shot animals from the offhand position but would rather not...unless they were a 100 yds. away or closer...there is usually something at hand to use as a rest .
 
Our range doesn't have a spot to accommodate a truck window, or quad to shoot off so many hunters can't get to practise their field positions.

Seriously though, many times I've noticed hunters, who really don't shoot much for some reason automatically assume a kneeling position when trying to aim at game in the field. I know they've never practised it.

Kneeling, I guess is the ideal field position for a moving hunter; it's fast, provides better stability than off-hand yet still allows for visibilty and clearance not often possible in a hasty prone position.
 
Wayne is dead on. Before we went to AFrica we practised alot from shooting sticks. AT first we shot paper targets looking for groups and the results were terrible. After a couple of sessions we moved to shooting the various gongs on the range, after a little while I could hit the 200 metre chicken 8 out of ten, and the 300 metre pig about the same. Beyond that the 380 metre turkey was pretty sake and the 500 metre ram is still grazing no problem.

One of the things about shooting game vs shooting targets is it's a different technique. Targets you are trying to hit the bull, game you are trying to hit the volleyball between the front legs. On game you bring the reticle on the taget and fire immediately upon aquisition, an a target you wobble all over the place trying to be precise. AT least that's how it works for me, I shot three deer last fall offhand at about 140 yards, 150 and a head shot at about 80 using that technique and it works for me.
 
bisonhd said:
Our range doesn't have a spot to accommodate a truck window, or quad to shoot off so many hunters can't get to practise their field positions.

Seriously though, many times I've noticed hunters, who really don't shoot much for some reason automatically assume a kneeling position when trying to aim at game in the field. I know they've never practised it.

Kneeling, I guess is the ideal field position for a moving hunter; it's fast, provides better stability than off-hand yet still allows for visibilty and clearance not often possible in a hasty prone position.
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I'd say sitting is the ideal field position when no rest is present or prone is not an option. Two points of contact with the body, the body firmly planted on the ground and still the ability to move freely.
 
bisonhd said:
Our range doesn't have a spot to accommodate a truck window, or quad to shoot off so many hunters can't get to practise their field positions.

Seriously though, many times I've noticed hunters, who really don't shoot much for some reason automatically assume a kneeling position when trying to aim at game in the field. I know they've never practised it.

Kneeling, I guess is the ideal field position for a moving hunter; it's fast, provides better stability than off-hand yet still allows for visibilty and clearance not often possible in a hasty prone position.
Click to expand...

I used to use the kneeling position alot, where I hunt the grass and scrub brush tends to make sitting positions hard to use. However like you said I don't practice kneeling much, I actually shoot better standing now then kneeling. Something about 1000's of rounds a year standing vs dozens from kneeling.

If you have access take up 22 rifle silhouette or something like that, great practice and cheap. 500meter big bore rifle silhouette is even better, and extremely humbling. However if you keep at it you will get better and your hunting will improve, if you can shoot 200m chickens offhand, no sling, no rest, when you get a tree branch or something to steady with while hunting that 200 yard shot suddenly seems like a slam dunk.
 
I went to the range just before hunting season several years ago and watched a guy with a 300 weatherby trying to check the zero of his rifle. He was proud of the manly caliber, but terrified of the rifle. It was painful to watch him flinch so badly he couldn't hit the 4'X4' cardboard backing off the bench at 100 yards. Eventually I told him I had never shot such a powerful rifle and asked if I could give it a try. Someone had sighted it in properly, bang on 2.5" high at 100. This convinced him he didn't need to shoot anymore since he knew it was sighted in. He said he shot fine on game. I genty tried to tell him that a 308 was all he needed and the game deserved a well placed shot. It sorta worked, I heard he traded it off on a 444 marlin that he also couldn't shoot. The only consolation is he was so bad I doubt he could even wound an animal.

Another time at the range we had a turkey shoot, hit the 200 yard gong off hand and win a turkey. Business was brisk for a couple of hours. The end result was 3 winners. I'm not a crack shot, but sometimes I think the European countries that have hunters pass a shooting test before being able to get a licence have it right.
 
sheephunter said:
I'd say sitting is the ideal field position when no rest is present or prone is not an option. Two points of contact with the body, the body firmly planted on the ground and still the ability to move freely.
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Yeah, but it's hard shooting up hill. Besides, you get your bum wet.
 
1899 said:
So then only 50% of shots are clean killing shots? (1/3 +1/6 = 3/6 - two misses and one wound)

That is not very good!
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It's worse than not very good, but is more like 1 miss and 1 wounded out of 6. Considering that there are plenty of good shots out there, the bad shots have to do more missing to drag the average down. Hunters tend to not talk about their misses and wounded animals when left to themselves but the truth comes out with professional trackers and blood-trailing dogs.The average hunter isn't any better at knowing whether he hit than he is at shooting. This shows that there are many more animals hit than the shooters believe, but is to some extent compensated by less hit animals being lost due to the tracking skill. Not all hit animals die, but if it bleeds you pay the trophy fees, and your licence is filled as well. This system leads to careful counting, record keeping and zero excuses.
 
bisonhd said:
Yeah, but it's hard shooting up hill. Besides, you get your bum wet.
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I'll take a wet bum for the sake of a steady shooting position any day. The kneeling position provides very little in the way of a steady rest for hunters that don't practice it dilligently. For the average shooter looking to increase his odds with a steady rest, sitting is far superior to both kneeling and standing. It's not always an option but one that should be used and practiced when possible.
 
Sitting is my favorite big-game position as well, often with my Ching sling. I must have read JOC growing up. Off-hand is left for situations where there is no choice, but is about the only position that I practice much at the range. If you can control a trigger offhand, it makes the more steady positions easy. Gophers and coyotes take care of practicing prone and sitting, with or without a bipod. I seldom use kneeling at all, except to shoot under brush. That doesn't seem to come up very often.
 
I like to sit, ven better if you can sit wiht a back rest and/or shooting sticks

One position not used often is squatting. You can plant both your elbows on your knees and take a shot. It's as fast as kneeling andfaster than sitting, but not quite so steady as sitting.

It's good for taking a quick shot ina somewhat supported position, and makes it easier to see over obstacles.
 
It is becouse of the weekend warrors that we take time in the mid week to hunt as much as possible. I was a snipper and in such I have also tot my kids how to shoot close and far. I also tot then to track and to work there way onto game as much as posible and only shoot when you have a clean kill. I just wish others would take the time to learn to hunt right from others in the know. it would make it saffer in the bush for all
 
bisonhd said:
Seeing people at the range all the time shooting "pie plate" sized groups at 200yrds with their Ultra-mags off the bench, I wonder how they do in the heat of the moment under field conditions.
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I couldnt agree more,try frozen fingers,snow in the scope lens,brisk wind making your eyes water,and top it off with just having walked a couple of miles,great fun though!
 
North of 58 said:
I went to the range just before hunting season several years ago and watched a guy with a 300 weatherby trying to check the zero of his rifle. He was proud of the manly caliber, but terrified of the rifle. It was painful to watch him flinch so badly he couldn't hit the 4'X4' cardboard backing off the bench at 100 yards. Eventually I told him I had never shot such a powerful rifle and asked if I could give it a try. Someone had sighted it in properly, bang on 2.5" high at 100. This convinced him he didn't need to shoot anymore since he knew it was sighted in. He said he shot fine on game. I genty tried to tell him that a 308 was all he needed and the game deserved a well placed shot. It sorta worked, I heard he traded it off on a 444 marlin that he also couldn't shoot. The only consolation is he was so bad I doubt he could even wound an animal.

Another time at the range we had a turkey shoot, hit the 200 yard gong off hand and win a turkey. Business was brisk for a couple of hours. The end result was 3 winners. I'm not a crack shot, but sometimes I think the European countries that have hunters pass a shooting test before being able to get a licence have it right.
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I have seen nearly the same thing happen to two different men and each time it was a 300 Weatherby!
Later, I met a traveller from the Weatherby factory. As the evening wore on and the sociallizing became more pronounced, some one twisted his arm, and he told us they had it figured out that only 20% of people who bought their Weatherby magnums, could shoot them properly!
I guess this is one of the reasons I don't get excited when someone tells of the new super magnum they are getting, or have.
 
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