Marlin Guide 18.5" vs Marlin 22" Barrel velocity

Very much disagree Neil, here's playing with iron sights- they work, they don't fog up, they rarely get knocked out of alignment, and they're far less susceptible to damage. Also a bolt in a faster, more effective chambering can be comparable to a lever. All of the chamberings in the video, even the 7x57 at the end, make the .45-70 look pretty damn bad.

 
heronfish said:
Maybe so, but I can load an fire my 4570 faster than you can your bolt I would imagine, and I can't short throw my lever.
And if a bear take 5 rounds of 458 bullets to his body and still reaches me, I hope he enjoys his lunch because he has most certainly earned it.
Now i really want to shoot an animal with mine, just so I can see what all this mediocre performance stuff is all about. I don't expect a bang flop, but I don't expect that from my 7 mag, 375h&h or 38-55 either.just a dead critter.
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Most can work a bolt while reacquiring a sight picture, so the difference is nominal.... Levers can't be short stroked?

mikeboehm said:
They look good but then you see the price of them and it's not any easier $1,600
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I got mine from Prophet River quite a bit cheaper than that...

Neilm said:
Brad in my experience a lows power scope is quicker and more accurate than open sight by far

Neil
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Everything's relative Neil, but i would have to disagree based on experience, except maybe on the accuracy part.... Truthfully, a reflex sight is quickest, but suffers from reliability issues as pointed out by Ardent, plus the whole battery thing....
 
You're probably right that a lever can be short stroked and jammed up, I just know that personally I cannot reload a bolt while maintaining a sight picture.I can with my lever guns. Take that for what it is worth. I'm sure others are much more practiced than me in this regard.

I'm a big lever fan and not so much of the punishment of the magnums, so in that sense I'm already compromising a lot.
 
There's a reason the ultimate speed shooting / instinctive aiming guns, shotguns, have retained the simplest form of iron sight for so long. It bloody well works and doesn't put anything unnecessary in between you and the target. Sure, electronic sights are creeping into clay sports too, but are by no means taking over- especially on field guns which is what we discuss here. One thing going for a Marlin is its iron sights and ergonomics designed to use them, I'll give it that.
 
I won't argue with you Angus and Brad but for me The low powered scope is quicker. I have it set up so my eye is centered whenever I bring the rifle up I don't have to align sights, I'm not even aware of picking out the crosshairs before I shoot. It could also be because I do not use open sights other than aperture sights much anymore.
 
My .338 wears a skinner peep sight and weighs 6.6lbs loaded. I will take it over a guide gun any day of the week.
 
Very interesting thread. Ardent, the .458 bullet may not be a big bullet that leaves a "big hole" but what if the bullet was 1" in diameter? I load the old cartridge with equally old reloading techniques. I use paper patched pure lead at 400gr, traveling at approximately 1700fps, which expands to just a hair over 1" diameter passing through a deer. In my limited experience it seems to kill just as fast and effective as other high speed offerings that I have seen, mostly 300wm. Food for thought.

I'll never advocate that the 45-70 is the best for anything, but I will advocate that it does kill well because that's what I have experienced. I mostly use the 45-70 because I love the history of it and the rifles that are built around it.

To OP's original question, the speed difference between 18.5" and 22" barrels is neglegable. The biggest reason for picking one over the other is preference in overall size or handiness. I had a 18.5" but traded it off because it felt too short to me. I prefer the handling of the 22" standard model over the guide gun. That said, I mostly use the 26" barrelled Cowboy version when I hunt with a Marlin 1895.
 
Funny, that's exactly what I was saying about iron sights in another thread and people took me for an idiot. Oh well.

You guys talk about hydrostatic shock as if it is science and happens all the time, but it's not exactly true. There's a few studies that either support or debunk hydrostatic shock reliability made by the US government.

Here's some food for thought http://www.scopedin.com/articles/editorials/the-fascinating-topic-of-hydrostatic-shock/
 
There are Grizzly's and then there are Grizzly's. A Costal bear is way bigger than a mountain Grizzly. I have only shot one Grizzly, a mountain Grizzly in Alberta about 30 years ago. I was using my rough weather rifle, a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine with 215 CIL round nose bullets. It was about 100 yards, one shot thru the far shoulder and he dropped as he spun around, did not find the bullet it smashed the shoulder somewhat.

I have shot a couple of Moose with a 45-70, both with 425 gr flat point cast boolits at about 1500 fps. Both shots made an incredible loud FWAP sound when they hit Moose, but the deaths were typical Moose kills with any rifle, 5 to 10 seconds of waiting for him to drop. Neither boolit was recovered.

I have come to think it doesn't matter what you hit them with, it is where you hit them. The most bang flops I have seen have been with the .375 H&H, followed closely by the ,270 Winchester, third place believe it or not is the .303 British.

As far as Killing bears and cartridges listen to guys who have been there and have done that, like Ardent and Ted. Of course a guide needs a rifle that can kill from any angle all the time. The .375 H&H seems to be the most popular among Grizzly bear guides for back up rifles.
 
Funny how threads about the .45-70 bring on the guys pushing African class cartridges and when African hunting is the topic, up comes the .45-70. No big deal as everyone has their preferences on cartridges and rifles.
We all tend to get caught up in our experiences while not directly answering the OP's question.

(Sorry mate, the short answer being; Ye won't cut yourself short by going with an 18" tube rather than a 22".)

Folks wanting hunter experiences using the .45-70 can start a dedicated thread for it. Again, no big deal.;)
 
Not sure what's with all the 45-70 passive aggressive bashing. I think people buy it more for the rifle then the paper ballistics. It's been around for along time, and will continue to be around. Must be doing something right, it's out lasted how many hot new cartridges? For hunting now big game with a 45-70 I doubt there's a better all around load then the leverevolution. Regular 405 he cast is more for trapdoors and nostalgia. 45-70 can do it all, it's just not the best at it. I've heard people loading 45-70 with shot for close range birds even.

As for 18 vs 22 inch, longer barrel may be slightly more forgiving if you a little off judging the distance on longer shots, might like the longer sight radius. Kind of splitting hairs for this caliber, I prefer the shorter barrel, more handy taking out of a scabbard or whatever.
 
Took just five posts for this to become a "45-70 for bear defence" thread, but no-one has mentioned Nazis yet.
 
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Why not? said:
You are correct, but to be certain, I would choose a smaller, lighter bullet, using controlled expanding bullets at much higher velocity than the 45-70 is capable of, every time. And, not just for grizzly bears.

A good friend of mine has killed more grizzlies with his 270 Winchester than anything else. My next door neighbour uses nothing but a 270 Winchester for all his hunting, and puts our big Ak-Yukon bull moose in the freezer every year. He not afraid to shoot bears with it, either. My wife has killed tons of big game, including bears with 270, 280, 308, and 30-06 rifles.

The truth is that people read more about 45-70s than actually hunt with them. It would be interesting to know how many guys here on CGN have actually killed big game using the 45-70. No one is saying it will not kill big game. Let's hear the stories about DRT kills using the cartridge.

Ted
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Shot this guy at 30 yards this spring. Passed through the front and out the back at a diagonal trajectory. That is the exit and the bullet entered behind the front leg. The bear ran 20 yards before dropping. Not DRT though.
The blood trail was impressive.
Bullets I had cast and loaded myself.
360 grains travelling 2050 fps.
250 pound bear.

 
James1873 said:
Not sure what's with all the 45-70 passive aggressive bashing. I think people buy it more for the rifle then the paper ballistics. It's been around for along time, and will continue to be around. Must be doing something right, it's out lasted how many hot new cartridges? For hunting now big game with a 45-70 I doubt there's a better all around load then the leverevolution. Regular 405 he cast is more for trapdoors and nostalgia. 45-70 can do it all, it's just not the best at it. I've heard people loading 45-70 with shot for close range birds even.

As for 18 vs 22 inch, longer barrel may be slightly more forgiving if you a little off judging the distance on longer shots, might like the longer sight radius. Kind of splitting hairs for this caliber, I prefer the shorter barrel, more handy taking out of a scabbard or whatever.
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I have not done it, but looked up the shot option. Called forager loads, basically it is a small amount of powder, a cut down 410 wad with a small amount of #8shot, sealed with a mixture of #8shot and melted beeswax. Fellow that had it posted had tried patterning it and considered it a 10yard load, often the wad made a rather large hole. Would be a good thing to carry for a emergency, since the Marlin 45-70 is often a gun for walking in really dense bush, getting lost being a possibility.
 
nowarningshot said:
I have not done it, but looked up the shot option. Called forager loads, basically it is a small amount of powder, a cut down 410 wad with a small amount of #8shot, sealed with a mixture of #8shot and melted beeswax. Fellow that had it posted had tried patterning it and considered it a 10yard load, often the wad made a rather large hole. Would be a good thing to carry for a emergency, since the Marlin 45-70 is often a gun for walking in really dense bush, getting lost being a possibility.
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I'm going to get flamed for this but I have heard that you can load and fire a 2.5" .410 shotshell in a Marlin 1895 45-70. For 20' grouse/rabbit shots.
 
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