ThatM305Guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North Texas
Exactly. ^
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MDI SLR receivers come loose.
- Thread starter HotSoup
- Start date
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
I tried not to comment...really I did.
Bolts coming loose is pretty annoying, BUT it could be worse. It's a super simple fix, with several different ways to get there. Just like any new device it's not perfect, get in a froth if they don't improve it over time. The snug pin holes are another matter if it's common, but I haven't been following this close enough to speculate if it's snug holes or the odd oversized pin...
As for accuracy, think of it this way, how does one shoot really small groups? With a rifle that does the same thing time and again, not 100% because that's pretty much impossible, but very, very close. In another thread I posted a picture of an Open Class Benchrest Rifle, the best tool for shooting small groups, period. Apples, Oranges, bla, bla, bla...but it's not is it, because we are talking about Precision, even if it's from different action designs. In this case a property of the design, rigidity between the upper and lower. A bolt is more precise than a semi because there is less to account for, less parts to influence barrel harmonics. Change barrel harmonics and change the point of impact. If a study shows different then I'd have to conclude they made some errors, or they weren't looking "close" enough for the results to show it. One thing is certain, Eugene Stoner wasn't some Alchemist who could alter the physical properties of matter. The only way the lower isn't going to influence the upper in some subtle way is if it is isolated from it...that might work with some kind of electrically fired cartridge, but not the 5.56 NATO.
Bolts coming loose is pretty annoying, BUT it could be worse. It's a super simple fix, with several different ways to get there. Just like any new device it's not perfect, get in a froth if they don't improve it over time. The snug pin holes are another matter if it's common, but I haven't been following this close enough to speculate if it's snug holes or the odd oversized pin...
As for accuracy, think of it this way, how does one shoot really small groups? With a rifle that does the same thing time and again, not 100% because that's pretty much impossible, but very, very close. In another thread I posted a picture of an Open Class Benchrest Rifle, the best tool for shooting small groups, period. Apples, Oranges, bla, bla, bla...but it's not is it, because we are talking about Precision, even if it's from different action designs. In this case a property of the design, rigidity between the upper and lower. A bolt is more precise than a semi because there is less to account for, less parts to influence barrel harmonics. Change barrel harmonics and change the point of impact. If a study shows different then I'd have to conclude they made some errors, or they weren't looking "close" enough for the results to show it. One thing is certain, Eugene Stoner wasn't some Alchemist who could alter the physical properties of matter. The only way the lower isn't going to influence the upper in some subtle way is if it is isolated from it...that might work with some kind of electrically fired cartridge, but not the 5.56 NATO.
Sorry, I just think that when a company charges $1000 for a receiver set it should be built right. The customer shouldn't be left to need to drill holes out so their pins fit, and they shouldn't have to piss around trying to find some special bolt or washer to have something that doesn't come loose all the time.
I don't hope they go bankrupt, I hope they come up with a better way to keep the upper and lower together and take care of their customers.
If they just keep cranking them out and taking peoples money till people stop buying them then I cut them no slack for being a new company or for being a Canadian company. As a Canadian company my expectations are higher not lower.
I have no problem with their way of sliding the upper and lower together or the magwell angle, it's just not for me and I want an ATRS set.
I do however know a retired armourer who hates the receiver sets and discourages anyone from buying them.
I get how people are upset, but at the same time I think they need to look 3-4 years ago. MacDef took a risk and gambled a lot of money to bring something to the market that no one had yet do. Also, everyone seems to compare MacDef to ATRS... but we haven't seen ATRS yet. Sure, they have some pedigree but I would bet there will be growing pains with them too.
Ive built 3 MacDef sets so far. One cracked bolt release pin hole. MacDef took the receiver back and Im waiting on a replacement. Met the owner and saw the shop - really put things in perspective for me. Great service on his end, and even if his product is only 95% of what the ATRS is, Im still happy. Dude brought something to market that is really really cool and is working his butt off. I don't expect his product to be perfect, but he certainly stands behind it - and in my book that worth a lot.
I was referring to being able to take all AR 15 parts with no proprietary stuff. But ya splitting hairs.
From what I have been told by 2 dealers is that MDI really did not have much skin in the game at all. The reciever sets were all pre-orders with either a hefty deposit or full payment up front from the dealers along with minimum orders.
Much of the design work was done a European gunsmith working at one of the dealers. It wasn't until something happened between Wyatt and the fellow who was doing the machine work and they parted ways and he took his mill with him that MD purchased a mill of their own and then had to learn how to run it. Which was 1 of the reasons, so I was told , for the long delay in getting these out.
This is from 2 dealers of MD directly. How much is true I don't know but both dealers do have significant skin in the game and have sold quite a number of these recievers collectively.
Yes the ATRS rifles had teething issues, the difference is that they communicated with their customers and gave updates regarding timelines and explained delays rather than just ignoring their customers and saying they'll be ready when they're ready.
Then when customers reported having issues they made corrections to the design and also offered to upgrade any previously sold units to the newest specs for free. Why would I condemn a company for that?
I don't think the price of either the SLR or MS receiver sets is excessive at all. I think it's very fair if they actually deliver what they advertise.
Considering that ATRS has been selling their CNC AR-15 restricted receiver sets for close to $1000 for years You can't even say that it's the non restricted tax. Just because you can buy a forged AERO receiver set for a couple hundred bucks doesn't mean that a CNC set is overpriced at $1000.
Dig back and read at how this group crucified ATRS for the Modern Hunter offering even tho it was the first true NR faux AR. Items of contention was the poor accuracy and the side folding charging handle and of course the price. Regardless of how hard ATRS tried to rectify some minor issues posters who had never owned or let alone seen one ripped them a new one.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
As I recall some of the complaints about accuracy really made some of the complainers stand out as not really understanding what it takes to shoot small groups. Moaning about large groups shooting AE FMJ, or some other factory econo ammo. When a good chunk of the complaints actually show the posters lack of knowledge regarding the platform how can I take all the "flaws" at face value. I can easily find comments on this form about problems witnessed by guys that hadn't even met at the time of the failure.
Post a question, or complaint about the brand currently on the Naughty List and you'll get a few helpful replies followed by 4-5 X as many useless comments about how you should have bought "Y", and how can "X" be still in business. We may as well add to the list of "what day is it"? I decree that the first hour of each Solstice to be Witch Burning Hour. All good members should have their effigies ready!
ThatM305Guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North Texas
This. 1000x this. Gold.
Canadian manufacturers are really attacked on here sometimes. It amazes me that Canadian companies will even build guns anymore. They make pennies on their dollars and are #### on constantly for their efforts. I don't think they all make perfect guns....but they at least deserve props for even trying.
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
And you have automatically assumed MDI won't rectify a potentially problematic bolt issue? I admit their comms were not as good as it should be but all I heard from you is whinging about how wah wah bolts suck, helicoils are terrible etc.
Precisely my point. We jump down everyones throat so readily without giving them an opportunity to rectify teething issues.
Has anyone heard one word from them about them working on a better way to hold the upper/lower together?
The only thing I've heard are the reports from guys who had problems who post here who were told by the few that got one that things fit that they must be assembling them wrong.
The one they built fit so everyone having problems must be doing it wrong.
And the guys with the loose bolts were told to try threadlock?
Them learning to show their customers and potential customers some respect and communicating publicly that they're aware of the problem and are working on a solution would go a long way towards calming people down and securing more future sales.
Them acting like customers aren't worth an explanation is not doing them any favors.
Telling people to try threadlock is not a solution.
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Thats the way it should be! And no it's not Penny's on their dollars... it Penny's on OUR dollars. I read somewhere recently that 46% of Canadians are $400 dollars away from not meeting their bill's. And I believe it. Everyday of my life, I'm surrounded by people who live like this, and these people will save up for months if not YEARS to buy something like this. These people cant afford to receive sh!t. So when they do can u honestly blame them for tearing the company a new one?
Now I'm not saying that the SLR is sh!t, I'm saying that if buyers dont hold company's accountable for their sh!t products, they wont correct the issue and they will continue to produce sh!t products. Buyers also need to act in mass, criticize in mass or at least threaten to do so, it's the only way companys will actually address a concern.
Think this is shameful? there are endless examples out there as to why it isnt. Companys produce sh!t at un just prices and get flamed until the issue is resolved. Company fixes the issue, produces fair product at fair price and nobody is complaining. Is Ruger getting flamed right now for their PC carbine??? NO, cus it's so far turned out to be a good product for the money. GS designs lar extensions were breaking on people. People complained. They addressed the issue, made the design beefier and supplied them to the unhappy customers.... no one is complaining. Business is probably good.
There are some tight fitting CNC billet AR receivers. So tight that I need a round or punch to push out the take down pins. Having seen xcr barrel bolt came loose I don't trust anything thats bolt together with a single bolt . Espically into aluminum. The mounting force shouldn't be handled by a bolt. It should be by mating surface of the two pieces. Just like how your brake rotor mate with the hub and wheel mate with the brake rotor. The static friction between the pieces take the load and the job of the lugs keep them together.
Did they ever!! Funny though many of us who have MS or MV have had no problems at all and are extremely accurate. Maybe reading the instructions as un-manly as it is actually has some benefit?
I run mine wet as they tell you to and run decent ammo in it as they tell you to and surprise surprise the guns work just as they should.
I swear that the Canadian gun community is its own worse enemy at times.
There, I fixed it for you.
