MilliRad Scopes

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358 BLR

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North of Edmonton
Howdy Folks:
I'm looking around for MilliRad scopes with the picket fence (if that's the right term?) style reticles. I know Vortex makes them, but apparently they're hard
to get, so I was hoping you good people could point me towards some other makes and models out there. I'm not that fond of the MilDot style and I'm
aware of the various MOA models, I just find the MilliRad system easier to use.

Thanks for your input.
 
Grouse River Outfitters had the Vortex PST 6-24X50 FFP M-rad in stock about a week ago. I'm still waiting for mine in the MOA version.
 
zimbu: Thanks, I may look into that.

Satain: Most definitely.:)

KevinB: Right on Dude, now we're cooking with gas - thanks for the pointer. Can I ask if you have an opinion on the actual "Horus Scopes" brand?
Later, I may want to pick your brain on FFP and Non-FFP scopes.:D
 
FFP with the Horus reticle -- otherwsie it basically useless.

Leupold does scopes with the Horus reticles
6.5-20x50 is the XM2010 (M24E .300WM) US Army scope with the H58 reticle.

I'm not a big fan of Horus scopes, but the reticle is awesome.
 
I know Vortex makes them, but apparently they're hard
to get
Click to expand...

;)

189712_174893629227657_140872812629739_486796_1646864_n.jpg
 
Leupold makes scopes with Tactical milling recticles, very nice there are fine lines through the cross hairs that represent mill dots. The milling system in the TMR style does not get in the way or block your target.
 
KevinB said:
FFP with the Horus reticle -- otherwsie it basically useless.
Click to expand...

Anything with a Christmas Tree style reticle is usable, such as the Premier Gen2 XR, but I agree with the principal of what you are saying. The power of FFP is the ability to use the reticle for holdover and windage adjustment without touching the turrets, and a standard mildot just doesn't give you enough of a grid to be useful.

358 BLR said:
Whats the difference between FFP and SFP? And please don't say "First Focal Plane", "Second Focal Plane":D. I ask because I honestly don't know.
Click to expand...

With FFP, the reticle grows and shrinks with magnification (to your eye), but stays constant relative to the size of the target. With SFP, the reticle stays the same size as you change magnification (to your eye), but changes size in relation to the target. The mils are only accurate in SFP at one magnification setting. In FFP, your mil marks are always accurate.

FFP allows you to use your reticle for holdovers and wind corrections without adjusting the turrets, which is a huge advantage when engaging targets at multiple distances when they are appearing and disappearing quickly. You also don't calculate corrections with FFP, you measure them. There is no thinking about how many mils/MOA you need to adjust for whatever distance, you just measure with the reticle and dial in directly. This is why you always get an FFP scope with matching turrets and reticle. Mildots with MOA turrets makes the system next to useless since you have to make conversions between units and/or remember two sets of dope.
 
kombayotch said:
Anything with a Christmas Tree style reticle is usable, such as the Premier Gen2 XR, but I agree with the principal of what you are saying. The power of FFP is the ability to use the reticle for holdover and windage adjustment without touching the turrets, and a standard mildot just doesn't give you enough of a grid to be useful.



With FFP, the reticle grows and shrinks with magnification (to your eye), but stays constant relative to the size of the target. With SFP, the reticle stays the same size as you change magnification (to your eye), but changes size in relation to the target. The mils are only accurate in SFP at one magnification setting. In FFP, your mil marks are always accurate.

FFP allows you to use your reticle for holdovers and wind corrections without adjusting the turrets, which is a huge advantage when engaging targets at multiple distances when they are appearing and disappearing quickly. You also don't calculate corrections with FFP, you measure them. There is no thinking about how many mils/MOA you need to adjust for whatever distance, you just measure with the reticle and dial in directly. This is why you always get an FFP scope with matching turrets and reticle. Mildots with MOA turrets makes the system next to useless since you have to make conversions between units and/or remember two sets of dope.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. Which brings up a question I've been meaning to ask (now that I know what SFP is):).
With an SFP scope, let's use an 6 - 24 x 50 MRad as an example, where the intended magnification for the reticle is 24 (which seems quite common), if
the magnification was set at 6, then wouldn't the reticles representation of 1 mrad at 24x be equal to 4 mrad at 6x, since 24x/6x=4? Similarly, 24x/8x=3 mrad
and 24x/12x=2 mrad? I've noted a similar relationship being implied with variable SFP MOA scopes, but usually only with the Minimum and Maximum
magnifications. Sightron is one manufacturer that makes this assertion.
 
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Yes, that would hold true IF the mildots are 1:1 at 24x. On many scopes, they tend to set the 1:1 relationship somethere around the 10x magnification, but it can be anywhere the manufacturer chooses.

To me, thinking about this just would just be one more thing that would lead to confusion/errors. The idea of FFP is to try and get away from chasing magic settings and calculating things in your head since that often doesn't work well under stress.
 
1:1 relationship in SFP scopes is supposed to be at the top range of the magnification.

Just because the power ring may say x power does not make it so, you will need to go out and physically mill a known tgt and at a known range and figure out exactly what is what on your scope.

Many SFP scopes do not correspond at all well.


Generally today there is no excuse for making a SFP scope.
 
Testing the accuracy of the reticle marks and of the turret clicks should be the first thing done after mounting and zeroing the scope...
 
Thank you gentlemen, I was thinking along the same lines. Luckily I have some antenna masts on my property that I could easily mark in 0.5 m
increments, or any other units I might choose, and I can get a clear line of sight out to 500m quite easily. All of this is assuming that I will choose to go
with an SFP scope. I wouldn't mind something with an H425 reticle, but I've only come across the Vortex Razor HD, which has a substantial price tag, or
the Horus Hawk at 1/4 to 1/5 the cost of the Vortex. Does anyone know of a Horus retailer north of the 49th?
 
SFP scopes

KevinB said:
1:1 relationship in SFP scopes is supposed to be at the top range of the magnification.

Just because the power ring may say x power does not make it so, you will need to go out and physically mill a known tgt and at a known range and figure out exactly what is what on your scope.

Many SFP scopes do not correspond at all well.


Generally today there is no excuse for making a SFP scope.
Click to expand...

Yes there is an "excuse" for making them. Probably 70% of the civilian market cannot afford a FFP scope, that is why they are still making them. There is no reason to not look at a SFP scope if you cannot afford something out of your range. They will work, however they are slower.

Greg
 
You can get a Falcon menace for $400:
http://www.allengunworks.com/414ffp.html

Barska makes FFP scopes that sell for a couple hundred bucks... These aren't going to be as good as a Premier or an S&B of course, but neither are the cheap SFP scopes. Nothing about the construction of an FFP scope requires it to cost significantly more than a similar quality SFP scope.
 
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