Milsurp first rifle?

gro0ve

gro0ve

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Hey CGNs!

Well, I've used, almost to the point of abuse haha, the search function on the forum but there are always big gaps where I would like questions answered so at the risk of repeating previously posted questions that could not be unearthed, here goes...

I've recently decided that I'd like my first rifle to be:

-reasonably inexpensive initial purchase ($600 max)
-tough
-cheap to shoot
-not a 22lr (desire somewhat serious stopping power past the 150m mark)
-possibly semi-auto?

with the added interest of history and a story behind it.

I spend a lot of time in the bush and up until now have hunted with both traditional and compound bows, however there are some things a bow just cannot replace a good rifle in doing, anyways I digress...

When I started looking I had my heart set on a K98k, then various 8mm mauser variants m48/24/47 etc... this was partially due to me finding them to be a really attractive rifle and I loved the idea of having a 1000 yard rifle that could take a beating in the woods. then I discovered swedish mausers and really fell in love with the m38/96 and the 6.5x55 round, and was really disheartend to come to the conclusion that it would be a very pricey gun to shoot even after purchasing hand-loading equipment if I so chose in the future.

Enter the last phase I've been questioning, part of the purpose is reliable self-defense in the boreal of northern Canada (cougars scare me more then zombie apocalypses haha), should I be looking more seriously at semi-automatic rifles?

so I started looking at the m305b and the sks, obviously the sks fits the cheap bill, and it's tough, ammo is super easy to get but it's reliability as a large game hunting rifle out past 200 yards is easily questionable at best? The m305's accuracy at longer ranges has me interested and it is a nice rifle but I don't really trust the reliability portion as well as 7.62 nato being considerably more expensive then 7.63x39.

So as you can see, I've really only scratched the surface. Any directions you guys could point me in or even any more question you think I should be thinking about that I havent mentioned would be very much appreciated.

p.s. I don't mind cleaning a non-chromed barrel, but would it be a bad idea to purchase an early matching sks russian laminate Izhevsk Arsenal over say a later model chromed barrel model considering the rough neighborhood I'll be using it in?
 
"(desire somewhat serious stopping power past the 150m mark)"

Are you stopping coyotes or elk?
Depending on how much bonk you want, you could consider either an SKS or an SVT.
 
A cheap to shoot semi-auto for plinking and cougar defense? Look for a deal on a gently used Winchester SuperX ;)

Seriously, if you want to shoot cheap milsurp it's 7.62x39 or x54r and even that has doubled in price in the last year. The other stuff has been gone for years. For other calibers, you can either pay retail for bulk new manufactured ammunition and hope to recoup some of the cost reselling the empties or start reloading.

Grab an SVT40, load up on Prvi soft point and crank the gas down so you don't lose all your empties.

OR

A nice No4 won't break the bank, 303 hits hard enough to kill anything you're likely to come across in the bush, reloading components are cheap (see Budget Shooter Supply above) and factory ammo can be had at Crappy Tire if you're lazy or pressed for time. See if you can't get a nice Longbranch (check the EE) with a Mk1 sight.

(If the cost of reloading is scaring you off, skip the press - check out youtube for the Lee Loader.)

.
 
#1 - Lee Enfield , preferably a No4 Longbranch. A do-all rifle in the field or range
With abit of self-training , follow-up shots with these rifles will shoot just as fast as a semi and stay reasonably on target.
The .303Brit is one badass hardhitter.

#2 - A nice Swede Mauser...don't give up on those rifles . The 6.5x55 is a fantastic round ...Yeah , ammo is expensive , but most ammo is anymore.
Balance , elegance , reliable and accuracy plus.

#3 - SKS a surprizing punch at 150yd or under but they're not known for accuracy.
Built tough and with nominal recoil , follow-up on-target shots will be quick
military ammo is cheap but hunting ammo is as pricy as anything else.
There's a number of 7.62x39 rifles out there that you may want to check into
 
How about a mosin their are capable of decent to good accuracy and they are cheap and cheap to shoot a good all round gun that's built like a tank and maybe a little sks to go along with it
 
At this point in time, the Soviet arsenal is the way to go, especially if you're a shooter. Both rifles and ammunition are the cheapest and most plentiful on the market. For the smaller 7.62x39 round, SKS, CZ858, and Chinese unissued SKS. You can drop a deer with this round up to a hundred yards and ammo is available and plentiful in both corrosive and non-corrosive rounds. There is also 7.62x54R that shoots out of Mosins, SVT40, and M44s. This round is considered to be the Russian 30.06 and can drop any big game animal in North America. Also, plenty of ammunition on the market in both surplus and commercial loads for hunting. A mosin is a hundred to one fifty dollars. How can youu shoot for cheaper? I take at least one or two deer every year with an old Mosin with iron sights.
 
gro0ve said:
....so I started looking at the m305b and the sks, obviously the sks fits the cheap bill, and it's tough, ammo is super easy to get but it's reliability as a large game hunting rifle out past 200 yards is easily questionable at best? The m305's accuracy at longer ranges has me interested and it is a nice rifle but I don't really trust the reliability portion as well as 7.62 nato being considerably more expensive then 7.63x39.....
Click to expand...
The M305 has reliability issues? First I heard this. They are very reliable!
You need an SKS and a Mosin Nagant bolt action. For $600 you get an SKS and crate of ammo for $400 and a Mosin bolt $150 then buy some hunting ammo for it. Use the SKS for practice.
 
I'd say go with the SVT. Its a full powered rifle, semi an SKS and grew tired of it very quickly, plus no way I could ever feel confident shooting at an animal with that thing.

Any Lee-Enfield is a great choice. I had 3 of them before anything else. Something else to consider is the Russian and Lee-Enfields are bulletproof in the cold as well. The LE has better sights. I've been kind of wanting an SVT-40 myself lately. That would be my clear cut answer if I wanted a cheap semi with good reliability and great stopping power.

Also an AG-42 is in your budget, ammo is tough for it as well.

CHeap reloading gear can be had and it does do the trick. I paid $105 for my Lee 50th kit a year ago and have probably turned out a couple thousand rounds with it. Their dies are cheap too. For $200 including components you could be turning out better than factory ammunition for whatever caliber you choose.
 
Thanks for the fast replies and good info guys. A friend of mine actually has a really nice svt-40 so Im definitely going to check it out. Anyone have an answer on the chromed vrs. not chromed barrel question?
 
Yes, chromed lined barrels are much better for full auto and corrosion resistance. Non chromed lined is better for accuracy.
SVT40's are not chromed lined that I've seen. Make sure to check that bore thoroughly. Sharp strong rifling is king!
A bad bore means lousy accuracy and you will loose interest quickly in that rifle.
 
If you're going cheap Russian ammo, get ready to get your 'clean' on! A good barrel will turn quickly to poop if you let that corrosion set in.

Regards reloading for your gun; Lee offers many inexpensive tools to get set up, and if/when you find their tools' trade off of effort for ammo $aving$ a tad frustrating, you can replace only those tools you dislike.

Also, realise all that cheap ammo is FMJ, maybe not for hunting?
 
I agree with SVT although it may be heavy if you are in the bush for long periods of time. If you want to mount a scope the SVT might not be the best route as aftermarket receiver mounts are hard to find and please, please, please don't drill and tap one! However, they are great to shoot and have some amazing history.

Some of the Lee Enfield sporters that come up can have great bores, still shoot the .303 accurately, but are relatively cheap because someone changed out the stock and drilled a scope on. My friend got a good one with scope for $175 that is quite accurate. I'd maybe look at some of those if money is an object with stopping power and accuracy needed. My 2c
 
Is your heart set on something military style? It just seems to me that you can pick up any number of inexpensive bolt guns, even brand new, from the usual makers. Semi auto? Maybe not. But I'm not sure if I would personally want to schlep something as heavy as an SVT through the bush rather than a small sporting carbine. I have a model 94 big bore for that sort of thing.

I'm not recommending one thing or another, but it seems to me that this isn't a decision you're making that is based entirely on practicality. Given that, I'd say go with your hearts desire and damn the petty details. If ammo is expensive, then buy a 22 to plink with instead of using your field gun on tin cans.

Go with the Swede if that's what has your interest. I'd buy a 6.5x55 if I didn't already have too many chamberings to load for ;)
 
Great comments. I would lean towards the CZ858 - cheap ammo, very reliable, very quick shooting, mags and parts are readily available and they are one of the more modern milsups out there.

SVT's are a really interesting rifle and the SKS is pretty neat.

Any of the traditional bolt rifles out there are reliable. If you can find a RC K98 for under $600, you will not lose any value over time, they keep creeping up.

Avoid a sporterized rifle.
 
" but it seems to me that this isn't a decision you're making that is based entirely on practicality" I fully understand where you're coming from here. my thought process in choosing a milsurp is that they are specifically designed to take a BEATING and place rounds on target. This is going to be a all weather, all terrain rifle that I need to work in 40+/40- Celsius temps with minimal/basic maintenance/cleaning which can be done in the cabin.

I had been debating taking the barrel and action from an already butchered milsurp and using a lighter synthetic stock but that ruins the enjoyment for me not to mention it might make the majority of the milsurp community here want to drown me lol. I was raised by a WW2 history nut and fell into it myself, however none of my immediate family ever owned firearms and it's only been in the past few years that I felt the urge to become a licensed firearms owner.

I think really if I look at it I'm trying for something that's as tough as nails but not hard on the eyes haha. out of interest and along these lines is it hard to find butchered mags for the svt-40 that are cut to 5 rounds so they are flush with the stock and how much would those be? I have no interest in destroying a magazine myself but I feel that a large magazine would be a real pain while hiking/snowshoeing.
 
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