Milsurps and boresnakes

Guys, I was not telling the OP not to use a boresnake, only to pull it straight through.

What happens is that the length of the bore snake (or jute/hemp pull-through) picks up carbon fouling (which is glass-hard carbon dust) and causes the rope to begin acting like sandpaper IF the cord is pulled through off-centre.

And yes, it's a genuine real problem that the army struggled with for years before switching to fixed cleaning rods used from the breech end on the AR15 platform.

I have seen MANY original M14 barrels with compromized CHROME at the muzzle from cord wear (!!!) Chrome is a good bit harder than ordnance steel too...

Remember, sandpaper will wear down hardened steel that a file won't even cut.
 
Best Pull-through ever... ;)

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Best way to clean your K98 right here! http://www.mp44.nl/equipment/rg34.htm
 
The trick to using a bore snake is not getting any oil or dirt on your battle dress, and keeping your tie straight. ;)

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I use bore snakes at the range and one piece rods with bore guides at home. Foam bore cleaner is very soft and doesn't cause ANY bore wear. :D

Spare the rod and spoil the bore.

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FWIW, I have switched to foam as well and for bolt actions, I use a one-piece graphite rod to wipe out the foam. The rod is set in an Abec 7 bearing handle to spin freely with the rifling - beautiful piece of kit. One patch to push out the blue gunk, a second to oil the bore - presto!

I DO use bore snakes for guns like the M14, SVT, Martini-Henry, etc. where I can't use a rod from the breech end. I won't push a rod down the muzzle - bad juju that and fraught with muzzle damage risk.
 
Because I'm a Jedi, I use the Force to clean the bore of my rifles. Works great! :D

I use a bore snake on a regular basis, but indeed, straight pulling.

Lou
 
Not yet Sir, no I have not.

I have seen some milsurps that had barrels almost worn clean through to the rifling from the outside from being transported in soft rifle transport bags.

Also there was one rifle that I thought was worn from the constant use of hard brass bore brushes during cleaning, but then I realized that it was the soft cotton patches on the cleaning rods that had really destroyed the bore!

:dancingbanana:

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I really don't think so, Buffdog.

This is just another case of a Keyboard Commando with no manners who has decided that reading the Manuals which were written by the people who designed and built the rifles must be beneath his personal dignity.

He is an expert on Moisin-Nagant rifles, obviously; we have his word on this.

Only problem is that he has managed to forget about all those many, many thousands of Moisin-Nagant Rifles with counterbored barrels, almost all of which were wrecked by careless cleaning practices. I have 3 of them here; you have your own rackful, I know.

But HE is the Expert.

Folks such as you, me, Claven2, purple and all the other Old Farts know nothing. Betcha even John Sukey, who has one of the finest collections of .303s ever assembled, knows less than this hero. Heck, this guy could tell James Paris Lee, Sergei Ivanovich Moisin and the Pattern Room a few hundred things!

Best ignored.
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Number 4 & 5 above (*) and (W) cord wear :eek:

Could we have a little more fun and just pull his arms out of joint until he screams "Cord Wear".
(just for grins and giggles) :rolleyes:

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Guys- without the old farts to pass along knowledge (hard earned knowledge, very valuable knowledge) this site is nothing but a bunch of idiots trying to convince each other how smart and knowledgeable they are. If you make those old farts feel unwanted they will simply leave, They pass along their knowledge at many different sites were they are wanted and do not need your crap. And I'll tell you true- I will follow them. Why? Because I am interested in learning not posturing. Mr. stern face go F.R.O..
janice
 
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Thanks for the support, Janice, but I don't need Daniel to tell me what the writing says.

I have tried, for 4000 posts now, to provide good information to anyone who asks for it.

For my troubles and time, I get jumped, mocked and contradicted by some dweeb whose age is probably close to his IQ, who flat-out tells us all that he doesn't have to read the manual. If I say anything against that, I'm The Bad Guy.

Very well.

Anyone really wants to talk to me, I'm over at The Other Site (milsurps dot com)...... the one where the SERIOUS firearms students will be found..... and I will be here a very great deal less, starting right NOW. Same handle.
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This is getting very interesting, because I am really wondering what qualifications, training and experiences some of the people who are making Posts really have to support their views.

I must say that I am of the opinion that people like SMELLIE are the ones to pay attention to when it comes to reading the posts on this thread.

I happen to know SMELLIE, and I live about 20 miles from him, so we have Coffee regularly, discuss things, and chat about some of the more "interesting" posts made by people on the Forums. At 71, I am one of those "old farts" who have about 60 years of shooting experience, some military experience, and some rather thrilling moments in life at the sharp end of the stick.

Both of us are old target shooters from way back, particularly on the Military Ranges. SMELLIE was taught to shoot by William "Bisley" Brown, a six time member of Canada's Bisley Team, and three times it's Captain. He was good enough to qualify in score to go to Bisley, but due to a young family and finances, he could not afford to go.

I know what this is like, because I was in the same position. High enough scores to qualify, but even with the DND subsidy at the time, it still would have cost over a month's wages to go and someone starting out with a new family just could not afford to pay this. My "Mentor" was an old Sergeant-Major who was retired caretaker at the local Armouries. He also had been an Instructor at the School of Musketry in Hythe, England. You might say that we both learned to shoot from the Best, but most of all, we were taught proper cleaning and maintenance of our rifles.

SMELLIE graduated from University with a Degree in History. His Thesis on Small Arms is still quoted today. He has been a Newspaper Editor, and later when he moved West, he worked in a very large gun shop where he did gunsmithing and repairs. He was also friends, and shot as a partner, with one of the most meticulous experimenters of reloading and shooting that ever fired a rifle.

If you happen to know his real name, and you look in "Cartridges of the World," you will see that name and an acknowledgement by the Author of SMELLIE's contributions to the knowledge he has made to that Book.

He is an acknowledged authority on Military Small Arms, but particularly the SMLE/Lee-Enfield and Ross Rifles, along with the Maxim Machine Guns.

SMELLIE has visited the Pattern Room. To get permission to do this, you have to have a VERY good reason, and you are investigated before permission is granted. He wanted to study the early Maxim Machine Guns there. A display was set up for him, and when he walked into the room, he spotted something right away. He walked up to it, and while he was looking at it his Guide noted that they knew it was a Machine Gun but were unsure of just what it was. SMELLIE then said it was the first, (Number 1) Maxim machine gun, and he proceeded to take the lock out of it, show it to the Guide, and said "See here, serial number 1." He then told the Guide that three of these prototypes were made, with the location of the other two, at Hythe and U.S. Naval Museum in Annapolis Maryland.

Then to make it more interesting, SMELLIE pulled out one of his notebooks, checked it, pulled out another one, and informed the Guide that if they phoned the Museum of Science and Technology on the other side of London, they would find that Maxim's original patent drawings and correspondence on the gun were there. The Guide call an Assistant and sent him off to phone. About 15 minutes later, the Assistant came back and announced, "The papers are there, but they have no idea of where the gun was." SMELLIE just stood there with a big grin on his face.

Using his notes, SMELLIE later sat down and within an hour, he wrote them an Operating Manual for the 1889 Maxim Machine Gun.

I think from his posts and willingness to impart knowledge, information and help to the Members of this form, SMELLIE is a valuable asset and Member.

It would be interesting to see just what qualifications that some of the people here who are a bit more rabid on their views actually have.
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Anyone who wants to learn about military small arms is stupid to not show respect for you and Smellie. I always look forward to reading his posts and sponging up as much info as I can gather from him. If he doesn't come here as much it would be a great loss to this site. You guys' experience and know how is invaluable to us young guys who want to learn about this stuff. Without ppl like you guys this history will be lost, and that will be a sad sad day. Its the same with any of the older arts, and I think its the saddest thing in the world that my generation thinks its ok to pass it by for ignorance sake. One of my best friends in the world and mentor is a 74 year old cat skinner who I work with nearly every day. He has provided me with all the skills I need to be able to make it anywhere in this world. Thanks to him I will always have a job. Thanks to you guys I will always have an affordable hobby that has really caught my interest. Respect goes a long way.
 
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