As long as gun companies dont start marking the chamber as such the rule of what its designed for wins. Not what will fit in it. Pump guns with modification to run them may be on shakey legal grounds as by definition theyre modified to increase capacity beyond 2 in the mag. There is no case law that im aware of as of yet
Mini 1.75 shells
- Thread starter huntingfish
- Start date
"Designed for" applies to federal firearms legislation, but it isn't mentioned in the Alberta Wildlife Act, which is provincial. So yes, until someone is charged, there won't be any case law concerning this.
From the Alberta Wildlife Act
There is no mention of design or modification.
Last edited:
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Shotgun plugs to limit magazine capacity have been around for several decades. At least since the Migratory Bird Act. So what's the difference?
A person is either in violation or otherwise.
Arguing its something else is equal to those that wish to make riveted detachable magazines illegal.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Why? They're harder to handle, harder to get to to drop into the chamber, harder to find, and less powerful. I think you're mistaking the word "insane" for "pointless". They go bang, that's it. They won't perform any better than 2.75" shells so what's the point?
Look at the wording in the Alberta Wildlife Act
It's illegal to hunt game birds with
If you are in possession of the minishells, and you can fit more than 3 in the magazine and chamber combined, the way the regulation is worded, you would be in violation. These minishells weren't around when the legislation was drafted, so it wasn't an issue then.
By your way of thinking whether you have them on you or not you are breaking the law of your gun can take 2 regular shells in the mag. All my 3.5" guns when legally plugged for 2 in the mag will take 3x 2.5" shells in the mag.
When I worked in the courts the legal defining characteristic is what the gun is data stamped for. Majority are stamped 2.75" and or 3" then there's the 3.5" of course
Short shells have been around longer than 3" shells
No different than putting 12 rnds of 9mm in a 40 cal mag. Even though the limit is 10
When I worked in the courts the legal defining characteristic is what the gun is data stamped for. Majority are stamped 2.75" and or 3" then there's the 3.5" of course
Short shells have been around longer than 3" shells
No different than putting 12 rnds of 9mm in a 40 cal mag. Even though the limit is 10
Again, you seem to be confusing federal legislation with provincial legislation. We also have a 5 round limit for hunting big game with semi auto firearms in Alberta , that goes beyond federal firearms legislation. They don't make exceptions for magazines designed for handguns like the LAR mags, the limit is five rounds. And Garand magazines have to be modified to hold five rounds, to be legal to hunt big game in Alberta.
And if you were charged for a violation, it would be for a violation of the Alberta Wildlife Act, not the federal Firearms Act.
Last edited:
huntingfish
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Quebec City
Well, I disagree. It's just another proof of the versatility of the 12ga.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
What makes them "insane"?
They seem like a novelty item
They seem like a novelty item
The regulations say no more than two in the magazine. If you are hunting with these mini shells and the CO puts 5 in, I think you are in violation. Remember the spirit of the law is to limit the number of cartridges you can fire.
Does the data stamp on your shotgun include 1.75" shells? If so it would have to be plugged to hold 2 in the mag. If the shortest shell length on the data stamp is 2.75" that is the ammunition for what the gun is designed for.
Yes if you are caught using more than 3 rounds total you can be charged but the fact that unlisted ammo fits in an unmodified gun doesn't make the gun illegal to use
Call your local game warden and ask how they measure magazine capacity
Short shells have been out longer than 3" shells just no manufacture makes repeating guns designed for them. Only recently have makers of pump guns begun offering mods for their use
The plug length is based on what the gun is designed for and that info is stamped on the barrel.
My 3.5" chambered guns have been checked many times by game wardens. If their gauge was set to measure mini shells they'd have taken my gun
The provincial regulation mentions nothing about it being illegal to use more than 3 rounds in the shotgun, it specifies that the gun must not be capable of holding more than 3 rounds. So it makes zero difference whether you had 3 or 4 rounds in the shotgun. Just like if you get caught with no plug , but only two rounds in the magazine, the gun is still capable of holding more than 3 of the rounds that you are using, so it makes no difference, if you only have 3 rounds in the gun.
As for the "guage" you speak of, I have been checked in Alberta, and the officer just had me try and put three of my hunting rounds in the magazine, to verify that my shotgun was plugged.
Last edited:
I was checked years ago and a flexible tube with a line was inserted into the magazine. So “gauges” do exist.
Asking you to try to insert more than two in you gun is a odd practice. I guess he was not prepared to perform magazine checks.
I think I may not be clear on my point. The courts have generally accepted that the data stamp is what determines what the gun is chambered for. The availability of shorter shells than what's listed on the data stamp is irrelevant. The province isn't going to make you use a longer plug so that only two 1.75" shells fit in the tube. They would have already as Short shells predate longer shells. Across North America repeating guns come with plugs to restrict the capacity to 2 in the mag for waterfowl hunting. Some countries somewhere across the pond are restricted to 1 in the mag tube are at least that's the reason Beretta includes 2 plug lengths. Can you see the most pro gun province neuter 3" and 3.5" repeating shotguns because a product they're not designed for is available? I can't
If you are using shorter shells to increase capacity yes you are breaking your provincial laws.
Some autos can be ghost loaded to allow a 4th shell while still meeting the definition of being plugged to only allow 2 in the mag.
As far as I was aware all provincial game enforcement have access to the flexible gauge to measure the depth of the mag tube. Some jurisdictions may have been left out perhaps
As far as I know no auto or pump is listed as being chambered for 1.75". Mossberg has models that come with a clip to allow them to function but the barrels are still stamped 2.75" and 3" so by our legal standards when they must be plugged for hunting they are to be plugged for what is listed on the data stamp
I hope I've made my point more clearly.
If you are using shorter shells to increase capacity yes you are breaking your provincial laws.
Some autos can be ghost loaded to allow a 4th shell while still meeting the definition of being plugged to only allow 2 in the mag.
As far as I was aware all provincial game enforcement have access to the flexible gauge to measure the depth of the mag tube. Some jurisdictions may have been left out perhaps
As far as I know no auto or pump is listed as being chambered for 1.75". Mossberg has models that come with a clip to allow them to function but the barrels are still stamped 2.75" and 3" so by our legal standards when they must be plugged for hunting they are to be plugged for what is listed on the data stamp
I hope I've made my point more clearly.
If you look at the wording in the Alberta Wildlife Act, it specifically states that you can't use a shotgun that is "capable" of holding more than three rounds in the magazine/chamber combined. It does not state that you can't have more than three rounds in the shotgun. So whether you actually have three or four rounds in the shotgun, doesn't matter, all that matters is that the shotgun you are hunting with is capable of holding more than three rounds of the ammunition that you are hunting with. So if you choose to hunt with short shotshells that allow you to load more than three rounds, according to the wording of the provincial legislation, you would technically be in violation. If you don't have short shotshells, and you can only load three of the shells that you do have with you in the shotgun, it would be perfectly legal. And with semi auto rifles , the magazine can only be capable of holding five of the rounds that you are using for big game, the federal exemptions do not apply , as far as the provincial legislation is concerned.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Last edited:
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The people arguing that they can use more than three minis in a shotgun for hunting because the capacity is determined by the shortest shell on the side of the gun haven't spent enough time in court watching judges make decisions. If the CO testifies that you were hunting with your pocket full of these shells and that when he checked the gun the magazine accepted 5 shells, they judge will rule that you were over capacity. Any argument otherwise is just wishful thinking based on conflating the rules for rifle or pistol magazines (classic examples being how many rounds of 223 can you fit in a 5 round 50 Beowulf mag or how many rounds of 9mm will fit in a 10 round Glock mag) with the rules for shotguns.
Answer this question...How many 2.75" shells fit in a magazine plugged to allow three 3.5" shells? No "ghost loading" or other BS. And not 2.5" shells...remember, they're not listed on the barrel of the shotgun so they don't count!
Answer this question...How many 2.75" shells fit in a magazine plugged to allow three 3.5" shells? No "ghost loading" or other BS. And not 2.5" shells...remember, they're not listed on the barrel of the shotgun so they don't count!
These "work arounds" work perfectlly as a counter argument- until the gun is checked by a cop or warden, then it hits the fan!
Cat
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
I can fit three 2.75” shells in the magazine of my Mossberg 935 which shoots up to 3.5” shells. The magazine only fits two 3” and 3.5” shells
My gun has been checked by a CO more times than I remember and on a few occasions, he was accompanied by a couple OPP officers. My gun has always been checked using that flexible tube as described by others earlier. Never a problem even when I had a shell belt full of 2.75” shells. Never even a question as to what length of shell I was shooting and rarely did they even look to see if it was non tox. Never once did the CO ask me to load my gun. As a rule of thumb, I have always immediately unloaded the shotgun as soon as they jump out of the bush unannounced. I’ve always been of the opinion that they likely appreciate the gesture that I prove my gun safe.
Never hunted out of province, so my experience is exclusive to Ontario
