Mini 14 and why do some oppose

Expendable Nate said:
so blaxsun your telling me that black rifles HAVE to except AR mags?? see now were gettin some where so that means all the high end forign stuff on there is gone no m14 no csa vz58
Click to expand...

M14 is not a black rifle, it is a Main Battle Rifle (MBR), VZ58 is a "red rifle" but under traditional nomenclature most consider it to be an assault rifle vs a sporting or ranch rifle that most consider the mini 14

I am not going to argue about the design, almost all hunting rifles (bolt guns included) can be traced back to military rifles designs or origins. In the mini's case it was the M1.

To me, in order for it to be a black rifle to me it has to meet the following criteria.

1) originally intended for military use, with a select fire variant being produced.
2) chambered in NATO caliber or other "military surplus" cartridge.
2.1) must be made in significant quantities to actually outfit a military or a specific role.
3) must accept high capacity mags
4) must be able to field strip easily without tools
5) must be able to fire thousands of rounds reliably between cleanings.
6) bonus if it is issued to at least one military unit foreign or domestic.
7) bonus if it is the firearm of choice for third world dictators
 
KevinB said:
Reading is fundamental. I explained why I had no use for the Mini-14, and the different reasons as to why folks tended to accept them, or not accept them.

I shoot about 15-25k 7.62mm a year, and about 20-30k 5.56mm, the Mini-14 does work for what I want, 1) It will fall apart due to firing schedule 2) It cannot be suppressed, cannot mount in line NV etc. 3) is not accurate enough for what I am doing. 4) has the woeful ergonomics of the M1/M14.

Honestly if you shoot less than 2K rounds a year, then this rifle may be great for you. But it does not meet my requirements, nor many many many others.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, though I have heard of '14s going through thousands of rounds (IE in IPSC three gun matches) and needing only minimal repairs at worst.

As I said, they are an upgrade to the M1 carbine and have been used by Law Enforcement agencies in the past to replace the M1. They may not be a high end AR, but they are a good choice if you want a rifle that can match an AR or similar rifle in low-intensity work, but looks more like a stereotypical hunting rifle.
 
wow

Why is everyone so all bent over this topic??

1st of all....the responses to this query should be filtered through to CANADIAN applications.

The discussion of whether the Mini is a black gun or better or worse than an AR variant is mute fella's!! That is if we're talkin anything other than PLAYIN at the range or LEO.

IF you expect to stray from a licensed range then it's pretty slim pickens to none for a 556 mag fed semi auto.....so that should be taken into account.
Frankly I'm GLAD tthe Mini isn't a so called "black gun" !

Appreciate the Expert opinions and advice from the Experts but lets also maybe keep in mind the OP's origins and intent.
Pretty unlikely that they are prepping for the sandbox and or shooting the kind of volume yer world is so maybe ease up on the bashing?
Not exactly applestoapples comparing a 4~5k AR rig to a several hundred dollar sporting rig like the Mini. Lets not also overlook the fact that it aint that uncommon to see a sevarl thousand dollar AR variant shoot for ####, misbehave, need repair and mods right out of the box too.

Don't get me wrong....IF AR variants weren't restricted I'd own and shoot them by the boatload...BUT they ARE here which is why I ditched the ones I had and haven't returned to them since.
I own, shoot, practice with and "prepare" for with weapons I can currently own/use/feed and can likely do the same with if/when things get tough out there HERE where I live.

The reality in this country now and looking forward......556 anything is prolly not a smart platform to have/feed as the platforms and ammo will undoubtedly become difficult to source soon and will always be a heat score.

12g, 22lr and selct sporting/hunting platforms are the smart bet.

One mans humble input
 
The Mini-14 is a Mini M-14 not a bigger M-1 Carbine, both are similar, but the design is truer to the M-14.

As I said before if it floats your boat, enjoy. I simply listed the reasons it was not for me.
 
terez said:
Why is everyone so all bent over this topic??

1st of all....the responses to this query should be filtered through to CANADIAN applications.

The discussion of whether the Mini is a black gun or better or worse than an AR variant is mute fella's!! That is if we're talkin anything other than PLAYIN at the range or LEO.

IF you expect to stray from a licensed range then it's pretty slim pickens to none for a 556 mag fed semi auto.....so that should be taken into account.
Frankly I'm GLAD tthe Mini isn't a so called "black gun" !

Appreciate the Expert opinions and advice from the Experts but lets also maybe keep in mind the OP's origins and intent.
Pretty unlikely that they are prepping for the sandbox and or shooting the kind of volume yer world is so maybe ease up on the bashing?
Not exactly applestoapples comparing a 4~5k AR rig to a several hundred dollar sporting rig like the Mini. Lets not also overlook the fact that it aint that uncommon to see a sevarl thousand dollar AR variant shoot for s**t, misbehave, need repair and mods right out of the box too.

Don't get me wrong....IF AR variants weren't restricted I'd own and shoot them by the boatload...BUT they ARE here which is why I ditched the ones I had and haven't returned to them since.
I own, shoot, practice with and "prepare" for with weapons I can currently own/use/feed and can likely do the same with if/when things get tough out there HERE where I live.

The reality in this country now and looking forward......556 anything is prolly not a smart platform to have/feed as the platforms and ammo will undoubtedly become difficult to source soon and will always be a heat score.

12g, 22lr and selct sporting/hunting platforms are the smart bet.

One mans humble input
Click to expand...

The OP's question was regarding why do some people not consider it a black rifle... your post is focused on what I am assuming is SHTF scenario based on the 12 ga/ 22 and availability if times get rough. Regardless I think a lot of your points are a bit OT.

Regardless you can't dismiss the experts opinions as the topic has come to a discussion regarding the definition of a black rifle. IMO a black rifle is a post WWII military style firearm. Whether or not the rifle is restricted is irrelevant, the Tavor is NR, and it is a 21st century assault rifle issued and in use in a combat environment, (and it is also black) so it is undeniably a black rifle. The AR15,Tar, ACR, XCR, Sig rifles and etc are also black rifles. They are all military in origin, chambered to shoot NATO rounds and they meet all the other criteria. If black rifle is simply colored black... then the topic doesn't make sense. The term "black rifle" is used all the time in US magazines, they indicate that there are qualities to a black rifle, the biggest one tends to refer to military linage and looks. So IMHO for a gun to be considered a black rifle, it must be able to survive in a combat environment and also must be able to fire at least 1000 rounds (min) between cleanings with no failures. It should also be easy to field strip and come standard with high cap magazines.

Thats just my opinion. From the sounds of some members in here, a 1022 in a Krinker Plinker outfit would qualify as a black rifle :D
 
If you have to make threads and argue that some "is" a black rifle, it probably isn't. Let's face it putting a polymer folding stock on a mini and some rails doesn't make it a black rifle. It makes it ridiculous. You think an sks with a taco folder and some other cheap add ons make it a black rifle? Of course not so why does that make it Ye case for the mini....

I get that it's cool cuz it's nr and it holds a special place in heart being my first rifle but I've since moved on to rifle that is a proper tactical weapon, where as the mini is a utility.
 
winnipegger said:
If you have to make threads and argue that some "is" a black rifle, it probably isn't. Let's face it putting a polymer folding stock on a mini and some rails doesn't make it a black rifle. It makes it ridiculous. You think an sks with a taco folder and some other cheap add ons make it a black rifle? Of course not so why does that make it Ye case for the mini....

I get that it's cool cuz it's nr and it holds a special place in heart being my first rifle but I've since moved on to rifle that is a proper tactical weapon, where as the mini is a utility.
Click to expand...

And what might you be needing a "proper tactical WEAPON" for?
 
Itrinsic value? Appreciation of quality and respect for capabilities what answer do you want man? f**king gun owners with no balls acting like antis I swear...

What do you need yours for ?
 
c0ntract said:
M14 is not a black rifle, it is a Main Battle Rifle (MBR), VZ58 is a "red rifle" but under traditional nomenclature most consider it to be an assault rifle vs a sporting or ranch rifle that most consider the mini 14

I am not going to argue about the design, almost all hunting rifles (bolt guns included) can be traced back to military rifles designs or origins. In the mini's case it was the M1.

To me, in order for it to be a black rifle to me it has to meet the following criteria.

1) originally intended for military use, with a select fire variant being produced.
2) chambered in NATO caliber or other "military surplus" cartridge.
2.1) must be made in significant quantities to actually outfit a military or a specific role.
3) must accept high capacity mags
4) must be able to field strip easily without tools
5) must be able to fire thousands of rounds reli.iably between cleanings.
6) bonus if it is issued to at least one military unit foreign or domestic.
7) bonus if it is the firearm of choice for third world dictators
Click to expand...


So the xcr ,rfb ,jr carbine, fn ar, mr1, sub2000, su 16, acr, ar-10 etc... so they ar all hunting guns?
I get your point and dont belive a mini-14 is a full on black gun. But your talking not of black rifles but of automatic military rifles and there derivative ;)
 
Ruger Mini-14 is a 223 Rem 1970s respin of the 1950s respin of the 1930s M1 Garand.
It's anything but modern in design and ergonomics of the rifle is terrible.
Unfortunately, the Mini-14 never inherited M1 Garand's accuracy, reliability or durability.

I personaly owned many Mini-14s, most of which we resold within months of their buy.
(the ergonomics of the rifle are horrendeous for a 6'2" shooter).
I might be suckered into buying another one because of its low price, non-restricted status and improved accuracy :(

It's a great utility rifle but not much else.

Alex
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom