Moose and Nosler etip bullets...observation.

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hawk-i

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So I killed a mature bull last Sunday with my recently acquired M48 Liberty chambered in 30 Nosler. Range was just short of 200 yards from a perfect perch and rest at the top of a 15 foot high slash pile. Round used was factory Nosler 180 gr. Etip with an advertised muzzle velocity of 3100 fps.

With the perfect rest atop the slash pile (and knowing the rifle is well under MOA capable) I decide a neck shot would give me the least meat loss...flame suit on.

On taking the neck shot I get absolutely no reaction from the moose, it continues at its casual pace as if nothing has happened. The bull then enters a short wooded draw and I lose sight of him for a moment or two.

As the bull exits the draw and is again in clear view I can see he is shaking his head every few steps but otherwise unconcerned. Now at this point I decide the reliable lung shot was the better choice, so I take it.

Again I get no visible reaction from the bull who still continues at the same casual pace. He goes another 30 yards, stops and beds down and I'm saying YES, bull down.

10 seconds later he gets up and starts walking again. A bit puzzled I get ready to take a 3rd shot. However, as I scope him I can clearly see heavy bleeding from the exist side of the lung shot, so I hold off.

He goes another 30 yards and beds down again but takes another few minutes to expire.

When field dressing the moose I can see the neck shot was in and out with not much damage. The lung shot was also in and out without much damage. The lungs where intact with about a 1 to 2 inch wide wound channel.

I'm not happy with the results of the etip bullets, the neck shot passed within an inch or two of the vertebrae and should of anchored him. The lung shot should of turned the lungs to jelly and caused a much quicker kill.

Don't think I'll be using anymore mono metal bullets on moose.
 
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Congrats on harvesting a moose this year.

I've got good results from barnes but can't find the federal copper ammo in Montreal. So I can't comment on how it drops critters, but I've seen moose shot in the chest head on where the copper slugs were found intact and mushroomed out beautifully in the rump of the animal. That's some serious bone crushing power that I'm looking for.

A quick comment on shot placement... neck shots do drop animals in their tracks but leave way too much blood in the animal's extremities. A lung shot where one leaves the heart intact so it can pump the animal dry results in a much higher meat quality. Also how much meat is really lost when shooting through ribs? The neck has much more useable meat than the 4 to 6 ribs that you'll break with a lung shot. I don't know of many hunters that claim the rib meat off their game. I've dropped a moose with a neck shot and the blood that stayed trapped in the meat did impact the quality of my meat. Steaks would almost boil and clumps of blood would be pushed up to the surface and the meat was shall we say stronger tasting than lung shot.

Just my 2 cents
 
Pretty clear that the bullets mushroomed very little. At that speed it should have dropped like a rock. One thing to add on neck vs lung shot. I shot an elk this fall perfectly blowing both lungs out. It was in the evening & could not find it until morning. I hate that. Given same opportunity I will take a neck shot but as close to the head as possible. The trauma to the brain brings them down quickly even if one misses the jugular. In this case a normal bullet I believe will cause more trauma.
 
I've shot etips among other mono bullets at game for a few seasons. Killed moose bear and deer with them. Some people swear up and down that there equivalent to the second coming. But my experiance was like yours sort of, they just dont do the damage lead bullets do. They do much much better if you put them through the shoulders. Yes they penetrate like crazy but also make a smaller diameter wound channel.

I prefer lung shots and accubonds myself.
 
I wouldn’t swear off mono’s for moose right away. I’ve never shot game with the E-Tips but my last six moose were shot with Barnes TSX and TTSX from a 7mm Rem Mag, .35 Whelen, .300 WSM and .375 Ruger. None of them made it more than 10 yard and when lungs were encountered they were turned into too.

I got to say, I’m surprised at your results.:confused:
 
I've heard enough stories that are similar to the OP's that make me keep shooting lead ammo. I've got some 110gr tsx to try in my 270 at some point, but I'm going to be going into that expecting this sort of performance - dead, just not DRT.
 
Unfortunately you do hear these kinds of things with monumental bullets sometimes. And I'm not a hater, I have some TSX's I load in .243 win and .257 Weatherby, and push as fast as I can. I think for a neck shot, or a proper builder room shot in particular, cup and core bullets are ideal. I have actually moved over to more frangible bullets lately myself, as I am a chronic boiler room shooter, and I find bullets that fragment and lose about 50% of their weight as shrapnel are brutally fast killers compared to harder bullets, if shots are right into the vitals.
 
I have two, recovered monometal bullets in my collection which did not expand at all. Only the plastic tip is missing.
They were recovered because they tipped sideways and did not exit the animal. Follow-up shots required in both cases.

OTOH, I have shot about 5 head of game where the monometal bullet made exit, and substantial damage to internal
organs was evident. No animal dropped in his tracks, though....death runs from 40 yards to 250 yards.

I am not shooting the monometals at the present...the Partition is still my go-to game bullet, but there are a number
of great game bullets with lead cores out there. [Accubonds, A-Frames, TBTs, Scirocco IIs, Interbonds, etc, etc]
D.
 
skhunter said:
E-Tips out of my 7STW do massive damage to moose.
Click to expand...

I put a 168 grain E-Tip out of a 300 WSM lengthwise through a mature timber wolf a few years ago from about 20 feet away. In through the centre of it's chest and out right below it's tail. I can't complain about that sort of performance.

I have also takes a few deer with the same bullet/cartridge combination at ranges from as close as 50 yards and as distance as 400. They all worked as expected and expanded well and exited.
 
Not surprised at your results.
Mono metal bullets need significant resistance upon entry to perform. Consider the velocity at target into the equation.

The classic meat saver shot behind the crease or soft tissue will not offer this resistance. In the case of monos, I trust a more direct approach looking for significant bone to break. So, shoulder bone, autonomic plexus shots will anchor game, quartering away through rear shoulder like shots. For me, monos like TSX are 250 yard and in bullets, and I go lighter than normal. For example, you need speed to make them perform, and a 165TTSX may be a better tool than the heavier 30s in the monos. And you do not need to worry about lead shrapnel in your berger as a bonus when aiming for bone like the shoulder. Have a look at ballistic studies site for more info on Nathen Fosters views on the subject and shots through the autonomic plexus. Some good reading there.

From your comments OP, the bullets worked as expected under the circumstances provided. Where the neck bone was encountered, the result would have been significantly different. Flame suit planted, I suppose you have learned from the shot, as a 200yd neck shot can offer a lot of room for error. I learned that a long time ago, at much closer ranges.

My 2c. Elky...
 
I gave up on the E-tips due to excessive fouling and low velocity potential in my rifles, so I never hunted with them. However, I have used the TSX/MRX/TTSX exclusively for several years, with no issues at all. The 150gr TTSX out of my 7mmstw, expanded nicely on a 300 yard shot on a pronghorn, so it even expands well on smaller animals, at not so close distances.
 
When you make a bullet that is great for pounding through a couple of shoulders and shooting through animals lengthwise, it's easy to end up with a bullet that's only good for shooting through shoulders and animals lengthwise.

It's sort of like a ball-point pen that will work underwater; but only underwater. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
 
I've had good results with the 165 ttsx in the 300 win mag on the one moose I've shot with a mono metal
286 gr nosler partition and 165 barnes ttsx recovered from moose
2iivdye.jpg
 
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