paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
To me there is a difference between hunting and killing. Shooting at an animal, taking three shots to put it down from nearly 800 yards is not hunting. You are just damned luck you got away with it.
Moose Down - 778m
- Thread starter Scrubbit
- Start date
- Status
Pretty damn lucky it didn't run off injured.
Now lets assume the first shot had really messed up his spine or else and couldn't get back up, how long before you'd have made it there across the lake to finish it off? or would a few more random shots at 800m done the trick?
Can't say I'm a fan of that approach.
Now lets assume the first shot had really messed up his spine or else and couldn't get back up, how long before you'd have made it there across the lake to finish it off? or would a few more random shots at 800m done the trick?
Can't say I'm a fan of that approach.
It's not about hunting according to how comfortable you feel, if that were the standard then nothing would be unethical and it would be a free for all. It's about hunting ethically with respect for your prey, staying within the limits of your skill, your equipment, and the conditions in which you hunt, ultimately it's about discipline. If you can't do that then you're just another redneck with a gun counting on luck and chance.
How do you even compare these two situations? Quit trying to change the topic.
Ethics can't be debated. If there is a good chance of injuring the animal, then it's unethical. Missing by a VERY WIDE margin is showing the OP does not have the skill and knowledge to be making those shots. Simple. The need to take more than one shot is proof.
You have guys on this forum who have proven their skill and still post that they wouldn't even consider that shot.
It's ignorance and stupidity that make the decision to pull the trigger.
Scrub' if you want to get a pat on the back from this mostly squat to piss crowd, make a post about a moose hunt in the little patch of brush behind your house. Tell how you shot it in the guts and ass a couple of times , chased it around in circles all afternoon and finally how you had to phone a friend to get the job done.
A big group hug will quickly follow from the mighty hunters that bag their moose in a like fashion, keepin it close so as not to exceed their vast shooting ability ..... Oh wait that that hunting story was told on this forum a couple of years ago.
A big group hug will quickly follow from the mighty hunters that bag their moose in a like fashion, keepin it close so as not to exceed their vast shooting ability ..... Oh wait that that hunting story was told on this forum a couple of years ago.
I agree. Since when did hunting boil down to just taking a shot at a speck in the distance, and little else?
I find it ironic and more than a little disheartening for the future of hunting that these long range "hunters" who peer through their Leupold rifle scopes (to borrow a particular brand - you will see why in a second) at their distant game, and utterly disregard the words of that other Leopold:
“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”
- Aldo Leopold
He put it into better words than I ever could, in his book Sand County Almanac, suggested reading for any hunter who is seeking (or has lost) a connection to the natural environment and the game he is hunting.
All right. For those of a practical bent as opposed to the preachers, thoughts as follows:
1. A 3 person team with 2 way comms is ideal for this type of hunt. 3 mil guys works well as all are used to coordinating with each other and the comms aspect. One shooter and two spotters while taking the shot. Once the animal is down, left 1 x spotter in the shooting location with a radio to vector the 2 man retrieval team. Retrieval was done by boat and kayak. In general, in my area, if you're doing a long range hunt, the shot will be over water, and the animal will be in about 2 to 3 ft of water near a reed line. Took the boat (Crestliner Commander 1850 with a Merc 150) with a small kayak on the back and got as close as possible given the water depth. In this case, I could have taken the boat right up to the moose, but it was getting pretty shallow so didn't want to take the risk. Third person took a rope with the kayak and tied it onto the head and rack of the moose. Tied a short piece of cord and wrapped it around the snout and jaw so water didn't get into the stomach. Moose definitely does float. Retrieved the kayak and third person and dragged the moose through the water to campsite (near shooting location). Moose was shot at dusk (pretty common) and we all had high quality headlamps. That was essential. Shot at 1930L and all butchering done and quarters hanging wrapped in game bag by 2330L.
2. First saw the moose at 1050m and shot at 778m about 20 minutes later. Variables in ballistics calc were temp, press, humidity, spindrift, tested G7 BC from Litz' book, coriolis, range and wind. Note that the moose moved significantly from from initial sighting to shot. Wind moved from about 1 oclock to 2:30. That caused me to miss my second shot.
3. Wind reading for this style of hunting is not too bad. Shooting px was about 50 ft above the water on the top of a rocky knoll, so it was easy to measure prevailing wind. The land is relatively flat, so you can take that prevailing wind and adjust as necessary for local features. One really nice bonus is that you can use the wind/water patterns between you and the target for a detailed read of exactly what's happening. There's no mathematical formula that you can apply to the info you get from the wind/water interraction, so it's basically practice. To those of you who are used to shooting plates on a range, it's a very different beast shooting in field conditions. Most hunters walking through the undergrowth shooting at animals 50 to 100m away through bush would be very pleased to get a spine and heart shot out of 3.
4. Boat note, 500 lbs of moose in the bow, 3 guys and about 600 lbs of gear is about max load for my boat. Takes a while to get on plane, and cruises at about 26 kts at about 4200 rpm with a 19p stainless prop. 2 boats would be ideal.
5. Finally, a note of caution. Took me 2 yrs and about $10k in rifle and shooting equipment and a great deal of practice to successfully conduct this hunt. Practice out to 1000m in varied environments is a must. Range work is good for initial practice and load tuning.
1. A 3 person team with 2 way comms is ideal for this type of hunt. 3 mil guys works well as all are used to coordinating with each other and the comms aspect. One shooter and two spotters while taking the shot. Once the animal is down, left 1 x spotter in the shooting location with a radio to vector the 2 man retrieval team. Retrieval was done by boat and kayak. In general, in my area, if you're doing a long range hunt, the shot will be over water, and the animal will be in about 2 to 3 ft of water near a reed line. Took the boat (Crestliner Commander 1850 with a Merc 150) with a small kayak on the back and got as close as possible given the water depth. In this case, I could have taken the boat right up to the moose, but it was getting pretty shallow so didn't want to take the risk. Third person took a rope with the kayak and tied it onto the head and rack of the moose. Tied a short piece of cord and wrapped it around the snout and jaw so water didn't get into the stomach. Moose definitely does float. Retrieved the kayak and third person and dragged the moose through the water to campsite (near shooting location). Moose was shot at dusk (pretty common) and we all had high quality headlamps. That was essential. Shot at 1930L and all butchering done and quarters hanging wrapped in game bag by 2330L.
2. First saw the moose at 1050m and shot at 778m about 20 minutes later. Variables in ballistics calc were temp, press, humidity, spindrift, tested G7 BC from Litz' book, coriolis, range and wind. Note that the moose moved significantly from from initial sighting to shot. Wind moved from about 1 oclock to 2:30. That caused me to miss my second shot.
3. Wind reading for this style of hunting is not too bad. Shooting px was about 50 ft above the water on the top of a rocky knoll, so it was easy to measure prevailing wind. The land is relatively flat, so you can take that prevailing wind and adjust as necessary for local features. One really nice bonus is that you can use the wind/water patterns between you and the target for a detailed read of exactly what's happening. There's no mathematical formula that you can apply to the info you get from the wind/water interraction, so it's basically practice. To those of you who are used to shooting plates on a range, it's a very different beast shooting in field conditions. Most hunters walking through the undergrowth shooting at animals 50 to 100m away through bush would be very pleased to get a spine and heart shot out of 3.
4. Boat note, 500 lbs of moose in the bow, 3 guys and about 600 lbs of gear is about max load for my boat. Takes a while to get on plane, and cruises at about 26 kts at about 4200 rpm with a 19p stainless prop. 2 boats would be ideal.
5. Finally, a note of caution. Took me 2 yrs and about $10k in rifle and shooting equipment and a great deal of practice to successfully conduct this hunt. Practice out to 1000m in varied environments is a must. Range work is good for initial practice and load tuning.
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Well this is a whole other topic for risk vs reward. I actually didn't remember seeing what the hit probability was in the hunting guide.. Perhaps you could provide me a number so before I pull the trigger next time, I could run my model simulations for outcomes! We all have different levels of risk we are comfortable with. Perhaps the OP felt comfortable taking this shot, practiced a lot before hand. Rangefinder took a bad reading w/e, hotter load was fired... Needless to say he connected on the first shot but was high. #### happens. Perhaps for him this was the 2% chance the shot would miss its mark. I would take a 2% risk, probably even 3%. Maybe you never had a bad shot, pulled a shot etc. I guess my point in this rambling is no shot is 100%. I think the OP did the right thing in trying to dispatch the animal as quickly as he could after the initial hit. In his hurry a miss occurred. Since none of us know him personally, we can only speculate.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Some of you guys have been watching too may hunting shows. Things almost NEVER go perfect. Dats hunting.
MIRAMICHIER
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Miramichi,Nb
I wonder how many were shot at 800m and were lost, you never here about those ???
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Agreed, it was lousy shooting by my target standards. How large are the vitals on a moose? 24"? Agreed, pretty big. But you and I are crack shots! I shoot at 1000m plus pretty regularly, likely more than most hunters shoot at 100m. So my question is would I be criticized the same for a wounding shot at 1000m as the guy who wounds a deer at 100m?
We all set our limits differently. Me, I am only comfortable inside of 2000 m meters on moose size game. Any closer than 200 m and I feel like he could close the distance and gore me before I could get off another shot!
Last edited:
I didn't realize he had a sniper team and the best equipment money can buy. That totally changes things. Sarcasm on high.
incorrigible
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- stubble jumper
Shot 1 - Spine Bad Shot... little excuse at any range if you take you time like you should
Shot 2 - Miss Self evident
Shot 3 - Heart Even a blind squirrel apparently finds the occasional nut
Understand any shot that does not harvest and animal competently on the first shot is a bad one. Not inexcusable as poop happens, and I wouldn't comment on if the OP was incompetent (33% kill rate is nothing to brag about), unlucky or maybe the sun was in his eyes... I wasn't there. But the fact that it took the OP two attempts more to finally (and correctly considering the initial injury... and by all evidence it may also be said luckily given the evidence of skill level) to put down the animal he only wounded due to an exceeding poor initial bad shot doesn't excuse the the initial poor shot choice. The douchey Liberal media just loves hearing about superstars like this shure-shot, sniper wannabe. I won't even touch that an adult moose is roughly equivalent to the size of a barn door. I could lob footballs with a .308 out to 800 and hit a target... doesn't make it an ethical shot on moose though. The facts too preachy?
So sayeth the Lord.
Last edited:
- Status
