Moose Down - 778m
- Thread starter Scrubbit
- Start date
- Status
Congrats to the OP! Its great to achieve something new like that!
You may of been lucky the moose didnt run away, but I wont judge you.
When I first started hunting as a youngster, i didnt have allot of shooting skill. What I did have is a maaassive amount of passion and excitement to go hunting though! I cohldnt sleep the night before the hunts my dad,father,uncle would take me on! The excitement/anticipation was extream!
The first couple of seasons of deer hunting found me getting a few opportunities that I messed up do to typical beginner inexperience. I got too excited, missed a few shots, etc.
my skill set was lacking for sure! My confidence was so bad, as I aimed at the animal, all I could think of was "DONT MISSSSS"!!! Soo much excitement and pressure! Wow! And I came
Back for more every year since! I will never stop hunting as long as my
Health stays good! I love it.
My point is, we all arrive at sucess by slightly different paths. We need to cross success boundaries in our own way.
I was lucky, I met a fellow who took me under his wing and taught me about reloading, practice, and hunting.
I spent many days target shooting and gopher shooting. Gopher shooting is the single biggest influence on my shooting ability that I got.
I shot thousands of gophers! I am sure I wounded a bunch over the years. Shooting is a learned skill for some. It came hard for me, but I learned it and refined it over many years.
As shooting became easier, hunting also became easier. I learned how to control my emotions and thought proccess to best get the desired goals achieved. After10-15 years of rifle shooting/hunting there wasnt much feeling of challenge anymore. So I turned to other pursuits to challenge me. If I have learned anything in hunting/shooting,you typically get what you put into it. I shoot maybe 2500+ rounds of high power (of various calibers) a year. So shooting practice has become a lifestyle sort of. I shoot some of those rounds at 100 yards, but mostly at longer ranges like 500-1000. And maybe 4-500 out to 1760 yards. So I have enough experience to know i can make shots like the OP shared with us. But I think its much harder to do under hunting conditions. So I dont entertain these long shots even if I have total confidence that I can make the shot. Thats a limitation "I" have imposed on "myself". I dont feel that I have the right to expect "EVERYONE ELSE" to comply by my own set of standards.
I feel that us fellow shooters/hunters need to Allow the OP to learn his ETHICS on his own. What he did is not illegal, but a little less "sporting" you might call it.
My only concern is that he practices "Allot" More before considers this kind of shot again. Its wayyy more satisfying to make a Single shot, absolutely perfect on a game animal!
You may of been lucky the moose didnt run away, but I wont judge you.
When I first started hunting as a youngster, i didnt have allot of shooting skill. What I did have is a maaassive amount of passion and excitement to go hunting though! I cohldnt sleep the night before the hunts my dad,father,uncle would take me on! The excitement/anticipation was extream!
The first couple of seasons of deer hunting found me getting a few opportunities that I messed up do to typical beginner inexperience. I got too excited, missed a few shots, etc.
my skill set was lacking for sure! My confidence was so bad, as I aimed at the animal, all I could think of was "DONT MISSSSS"!!! Soo much excitement and pressure! Wow! And I came
Back for more every year since! I will never stop hunting as long as my
Health stays good! I love it.
My point is, we all arrive at sucess by slightly different paths. We need to cross success boundaries in our own way.
I was lucky, I met a fellow who took me under his wing and taught me about reloading, practice, and hunting.
I spent many days target shooting and gopher shooting. Gopher shooting is the single biggest influence on my shooting ability that I got.
I shot thousands of gophers! I am sure I wounded a bunch over the years. Shooting is a learned skill for some. It came hard for me, but I learned it and refined it over many years.
As shooting became easier, hunting also became easier. I learned how to control my emotions and thought proccess to best get the desired goals achieved. After10-15 years of rifle shooting/hunting there wasnt much feeling of challenge anymore. So I turned to other pursuits to challenge me. If I have learned anything in hunting/shooting,you typically get what you put into it. I shoot maybe 2500+ rounds of high power (of various calibers) a year. So shooting practice has become a lifestyle sort of. I shoot some of those rounds at 100 yards, but mostly at longer ranges like 500-1000. And maybe 4-500 out to 1760 yards. So I have enough experience to know i can make shots like the OP shared with us. But I think its much harder to do under hunting conditions. So I dont entertain these long shots even if I have total confidence that I can make the shot. Thats a limitation "I" have imposed on "myself". I dont feel that I have the right to expect "EVERYONE ELSE" to comply by my own set of standards.
I feel that us fellow shooters/hunters need to Allow the OP to learn his ETHICS on his own. What he did is not illegal, but a little less "sporting" you might call it.
My only concern is that he practices "Allot" More before considers this kind of shot again. Its wayyy more satisfying to make a Single shot, absolutely perfect on a game animal!
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have spent many years setting up for LR hunting so have no issue with the process if proper steps are taken. If you don't mind a bit of constructive criticism, consider the following through the eyes of a competition LR shooter and ex LR hunter.
Range, and ambient weather understood. Let's call it 800yds for easy math.
Wind - obviously not strong and with visible cues - water, vegetation, likely wind meter of some sort.
Time - animal is not stressed and moving slowly given the time it took to go from where you first saw to where you took the shot. Time to set up the shooting position.
So assuming all the above is correct, the first shot (cold bore) lands about 3.5ft above desired point of impact (guessing on size of moose). That is approx. 5 1/4 mins high.
Second shot is maybe 3 feet low given that you hit the water on the standing moose in 3ft of water. Approx 4.5mins low.
3rd shot connects enough to stop the moose.
Typical drop between 700 and 800yds with a 210gr VLD and 300WM is likely around 2.5 mins. Just run the numbers for your load.
Usually, that first shot is my best as I have time to set up, get all my ducks in a row and concentrate on a clean break. The shot ends up not doing what you want and given all that you have practised and planned, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The next part is typical and that is a bit of panic.
2nd shot is rushed/over compensated and quite easy to be pulled badly... so it goes way low. Not ideal but understandable.
Refocus happens from known info, a correction is made and the third shot connects enough to get the job done. Location unknown vs POA. Good BUT that is not the problem.
The problem is how far off that first cold bore shot was. Given the practise and load tuning that is required for this type of endeavor, I would know exactly where that first shot is going to land at all ranges I will engage. I may be out as much as 1 min given the changes in ambient conditions, range, light, excitement, whatever but that shot is going to hit in and around that 5 ring.
That 5 ring would have put that moose down, simple as that. Given the trajectory of the bullet and rd used, you could be a ways off in ranging and still connect, no worst then the 4 ring which is still plenty tight to end the event.
So this is not to critise the act but in the gear, set up and possible practise.
You may have a scope that is not tracking, a gun and ammo that is not as good as you may hope for. The need for more trigger time to ensure that first and follow up shots go exactly where you want.
Ask any F class competitor and they will tell you the same thing. Set up, know the range, dial the scope, SWAG the winds, send sighter 1... that shot is expected to land within 1min of POA for elevation if not even with the center of the V bull. Windage may be off but not a huge amount.... hopefully.
Windage is the only real thing we are trying to figure out and with a high BC set up and light air, that amount of error will not be big. For hitting a moose at LR, it better not be.
So consider, more testing, more practise and a serious check on your gears real world performance. Something is not working well for you and should be figured out.
When I was set up for LR shooting, the process was to locate the game, NOT hit the game. That part was simply range, dial up, dope, fire, go retrieve. The hard part was getting in front of the animal. The harvesting was no more demanding then a 100yd shot otherwise, that shot was not taken.
I tested by doing a bunch of field shooting on milk jug sized targets placed randomly. If I could not connect on a cold bore (and up to 2 more followed in quick succession), it put limits on both range and conditions that I would/could engage. It was a no brainer to see if what I was doing worked or not.
Hope this helps...
Jerry
Range, and ambient weather understood. Let's call it 800yds for easy math.
Wind - obviously not strong and with visible cues - water, vegetation, likely wind meter of some sort.
Time - animal is not stressed and moving slowly given the time it took to go from where you first saw to where you took the shot. Time to set up the shooting position.
So assuming all the above is correct, the first shot (cold bore) lands about 3.5ft above desired point of impact (guessing on size of moose). That is approx. 5 1/4 mins high.
Second shot is maybe 3 feet low given that you hit the water on the standing moose in 3ft of water. Approx 4.5mins low.
3rd shot connects enough to stop the moose.
Typical drop between 700 and 800yds with a 210gr VLD and 300WM is likely around 2.5 mins. Just run the numbers for your load.
Usually, that first shot is my best as I have time to set up, get all my ducks in a row and concentrate on a clean break. The shot ends up not doing what you want and given all that you have practised and planned, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The next part is typical and that is a bit of panic.
2nd shot is rushed/over compensated and quite easy to be pulled badly... so it goes way low. Not ideal but understandable.
Refocus happens from known info, a correction is made and the third shot connects enough to get the job done. Location unknown vs POA. Good BUT that is not the problem.
The problem is how far off that first cold bore shot was. Given the practise and load tuning that is required for this type of endeavor, I would know exactly where that first shot is going to land at all ranges I will engage. I may be out as much as 1 min given the changes in ambient conditions, range, light, excitement, whatever but that shot is going to hit in and around that 5 ring.
That 5 ring would have put that moose down, simple as that. Given the trajectory of the bullet and rd used, you could be a ways off in ranging and still connect, no worst then the 4 ring which is still plenty tight to end the event.
So this is not to critise the act but in the gear, set up and possible practise.
You may have a scope that is not tracking, a gun and ammo that is not as good as you may hope for. The need for more trigger time to ensure that first and follow up shots go exactly where you want.
Ask any F class competitor and they will tell you the same thing. Set up, know the range, dial the scope, SWAG the winds, send sighter 1... that shot is expected to land within 1min of POA for elevation if not even with the center of the V bull. Windage may be off but not a huge amount.... hopefully.
Windage is the only real thing we are trying to figure out and with a high BC set up and light air, that amount of error will not be big. For hitting a moose at LR, it better not be.
So consider, more testing, more practise and a serious check on your gears real world performance. Something is not working well for you and should be figured out.
When I was set up for LR shooting, the process was to locate the game, NOT hit the game. That part was simply range, dial up, dope, fire, go retrieve. The hard part was getting in front of the animal. The harvesting was no more demanding then a 100yd shot otherwise, that shot was not taken.
I tested by doing a bunch of field shooting on milk jug sized targets placed randomly. If I could not connect on a cold bore (and up to 2 more followed in quick succession), it put limits on both range and conditions that I would/could engage. It was a no brainer to see if what I was doing worked or not.
Hope this helps...
Jerry
So what have we learned from this thread? Well now let's see
1. Moa = minute of arrogance
2. Most people that preach ethics have no problem ####ting all over someone else's
3. Most people "say" they are expert marksman others are apparently excellent callers.
4. "I can hit a gong all day long"
5. Never brag.
1. Moa = minute of arrogance
2. Most people that preach ethics have no problem ####ting all over someone else's
3. Most people "say" they are expert marksman others are apparently excellent callers.
4. "I can hit a gong all day long"
5. Never brag.
Hi Jerry. Good post. Wind was my problem. First shot vertical was slightly high, but in the realm. As the moose had walked over the course of 20 mins, the angle of the wind relative to my shooting px had changed, and I forgot to make the final adjustment. Moose went down hard, and I didn't know where I'd hit, so didn't change my POA and the second shot missed. After the first shot, the moose walked very slowly into deeper water but away from me. Combination of nerves, moose moving slowly away and to the right, and the wind adjustment being out. Nice splash in the water to mark the shot. Third shot went exactly where I wanted it. Interesting to note that given that he had no visual/sound/smell cues, the moose barely moved (and only very slowly) after the first shot knocked him over and he got back to his feet. Definitely a learning experience, although at no point did I feel there was a danger of leaving a wounded moose in the bush. In retrospect, may have a spotter do the ranging continuously as the animal moves slowly. I did my own, so there was a delay between the range and the shot and the animal moved slightly. Makes a big diff in elevation at that range as you know.
Hi .284, the VLDs were going just over 1800 fps (around 1400 ft lbs of energy) when they hit. Didn't find either of the bullets yet. The spine shot made a bit of a mess. The heart shot behaved very well and looked like it held together quite nicely from the wound channel. Notched a rib on the way in. May find it inside the far rib. If I was wishing, I would like a bit hardier bullet as it might have broken the spine, but the vitals shot was amazing as he was dead and still inside 10s or less of that hit. Always a tradeoff between tougher bullets and more expansion. Hope that helps.
All: I have no problem discussing improvements to technique for future hunts. Anybody who does this type of hunting will acknowledge that there are always ways to improve. No interest in the preaching and people trying to make themselves feel superior by trying to put others down. Happy hunting all. I'm outta here for now. Will post next fall when I do my next long range hunt.
Hi .284, the VLDs were going just over 1800 fps (around 1400 ft lbs of energy) when they hit. Didn't find either of the bullets yet. The spine shot made a bit of a mess. The heart shot behaved very well and looked like it held together quite nicely from the wound channel. Notched a rib on the way in. May find it inside the far rib. If I was wishing, I would like a bit hardier bullet as it might have broken the spine, but the vitals shot was amazing as he was dead and still inside 10s or less of that hit. Always a tradeoff between tougher bullets and more expansion. Hope that helps.
All: I have no problem discussing improvements to technique for future hunts. Anybody who does this type of hunting will acknowledge that there are always ways to improve. No interest in the preaching and people trying to make themselves feel superior by trying to put others down. Happy hunting all. I'm outta here for now. Will post next fall when I do my next long range hunt.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well you screwed it up pretty badly, so you should likely reexamine your skill set and ethics. This was clearly beyond it. Three shots, one a bad wound, second a miss, third finally connecting is an embarrassment not an accomplishment I'm afraid. The only part of your story that impresses me is your honesty, but unfortunately you seem proud of the whole scenario.
I'm an avid 1,000 yard shooter. We have our own range and through summer I shoot it weekly, the shot wouldn't be difficult to make if you know the range and the wind's in favour. That doesn't mean it should be attempted, there's hunting and there's stunting, if you were capable of a clean first shot at 850 then all the more power to you, it is very apparent that's not the case yet. Sorry for the frankness, but you came on here looking for opinions (praise), and this is my opinion.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
You had indicated you shot with another 2 shooters and were on mics. There is so much you could do in the future to ensure it goes way smoother. That extra set of eyes can be so critical on those long shots to confirm where the shot hit, help with wind doping, ranging.
That is part of the team shooting we sometimes do in F class. It is so much fun to train and practise this way. If you intend to hunt with the same guys, consider trying some of these techniques. I know it will greatly improve everyones results.
If interested, I have variety of articles on load tuning and optics set up on my website in the TECH section. They will also link you to the LR hunting forum where this stuff is discussed at a very proficient level.
I got into LR shooting and eventually competition because of a hunting situation that showed me how little I really knew and how poorly set up my gear was. It doesn't mean mountains of money or years of training, but it does take some solid gear (mine was factory Savage package rifle), great optics and some load tuning. Couple that with some honest real world testing and there is so much you can achieve.
Consider running that scope test. It is a brutal way to confirm if your scope will work. Many scopes don't pass, even some pricey ones.
Confirm that cold bore shot WITH the scope and rangefinder you will hunt with. The most important bit of info you need to have the confidence to hit at distance.
I do not know of a single F class competitor that doesn't expect to hit the V bull on sighter 1... We don't always of course but we know our gear can do it if the wind read is good. That is a 1/2 min cold bore shot each time, several distances, multiple days.
1 min cold bore is no longer a huge deal if you put in the effort and have solid gear.
Good luck with your quest..
Jerry
That is part of the team shooting we sometimes do in F class. It is so much fun to train and practise this way. If you intend to hunt with the same guys, consider trying some of these techniques. I know it will greatly improve everyones results.
If interested, I have variety of articles on load tuning and optics set up on my website in the TECH section. They will also link you to the LR hunting forum where this stuff is discussed at a very proficient level.
I got into LR shooting and eventually competition because of a hunting situation that showed me how little I really knew and how poorly set up my gear was. It doesn't mean mountains of money or years of training, but it does take some solid gear (mine was factory Savage package rifle), great optics and some load tuning. Couple that with some honest real world testing and there is so much you can achieve.
Consider running that scope test. It is a brutal way to confirm if your scope will work. Many scopes don't pass, even some pricey ones.
Confirm that cold bore shot WITH the scope and rangefinder you will hunt with. The most important bit of info you need to have the confidence to hit at distance.
I do not know of a single F class competitor that doesn't expect to hit the V bull on sighter 1... We don't always of course but we know our gear can do it if the wind read is good. That is a 1/2 min cold bore shot each time, several distances, multiple days.
1 min cold bore is no longer a huge deal if you put in the effort and have solid gear.
Good luck with your quest..
Jerry
It is not a shot I would take...but if your skill set includes regular practice at that distance and beyond (like the OP says he does), then I don't see a problem with it.
In the Hunting section there is a thread on shooting running deer...and people seem justified in shooting deer multiple times in the ass, guts and head at distances of under 100 yards.
Ethics are something for you to determine for yourself. Don't judge others based on your ethics.
In the Hunting section there is a thread on shooting running deer...and people seem justified in shooting deer multiple times in the ass, guts and head at distances of under 100 yards.
Ethics are something for you to determine for yourself. Don't judge others based on your ethics.
I would not take this shot. Poor Ethics for sure.
Dear Pope John Paul II, even thou are dead you have been replaced by a thousand CGNers who hath brought Pontificating to a level that would make the heavens rejoice, for but a mortal man to share his success should be thrown into the lions den.
God bless the internet!
God bless the internet!
Please define.
This. I am pretty sure that this wasn't a success. I stopped hunting with a good friend years ago because he shot a deer in the ass (waited to take the shot until the deer turned away)
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