more gun or more glass?

For that kind of money I would go custom:

Barrel ~$500
Action ~$1200-$2000
Recoil lug (if not integral) $35
Trigger $140
Stock McMillan($700-1000) or Chassis ($500-$1100)
Magazine $75
Chambering and ceracoating $500-$750

You can get into a custom for a minimum of $2950, the maximum is limitless.

That leaves you with $2050 for optics. You can either go Sightron for roughly $1100 or Nightforce for roughly $2200

Since you are just getting into it. I would lean to sightron but with the difference I would buy reloading gear, which you could easily fit within your budget.
Reloading will provide you significantly greater gains in precision in comparison to what gains you would see from buying a schmidt bender/nightforce over a sightron.

Then with the reloading gear, I would immediately pass on the .308 and go with any of the 6.5's (260, 260AI, 6.5x47, 6.5 creedmoor) or a 7mm in 284 winchester.
 
A Tikka varmint in a cadex field strike chassis With an atlas bipod and rings should come out to around 3000 give you what you want and be a scope away from a capable rig. Optics will be a personal choice but a large selection in the left over money.
 
I say build one.

Rem700 action - $550
Barrel - $500
Precision ground recoil lug - $50
Trigger - $275
Stock - $1000-$1500
Gunsmith fees to true up action, thread barrel, chamber and bed stock - $1000-$1200
Sightron SIIISS -$1300

Now you have exactly what you want and can spend years trying to shoot well enough to do the rifle justice.
 
Thanks for all of the additional input guys! I am definity sold on the idea of getting a quality scope as a starting point and Sightron seems to be the best bang for the buck.

One quick question for Jerry though: I see you're recommending an S III. is the SVSS is too much scope for what I need?

I like the idea of a custom or semi-custom build. I hadn't really thought that was a possibility in my price range. I think ill swing by ATRS next week and see what they may be able to do for me in a reasonable price range.

For a build, are Remington actions the one to go with in this price range? Or are there others to consider?

I also really like the thought of just getting a decent shooting gun (like pitbull1973's R5) and upgrading/customizing as I get better with the gun.

So many options.... Thanks again guys. The help is much appreciated!
 
Another question. If I go with a chassis system like a Cadex, do I need to worry about bedding the action? Or are aluminum chassis self bedding because they are machined to match the receiver? Sorry for the rookie question!
 
You don't have to bed a chassis. That being said, a rifle won't shoot worse after bedding, only better. Unless the chassis or action are custom machined to fit together, the amount of contact will always be a lot less then if it were bedded. The only reason I might not bed it would be if I might be using multiple barreled actions in one chassis.
 
krausb said:
Thanks for all of the additional input guys! I am definity sold on the idea of getting a quality scope as a starting point and Sightron seems to be the best bang for the buck.

One quick question for Jerry though: I see you're recommending an S III. is the SVSS is too much scope for what I need?

I like the idea of a custom or semi-custom build. I hadn't really thought that was a possibility in my price range. I think ill swing by ATRS next week and see what they may be able to do for me in a reasonable price range.

For a build, are Remington actions the one to go with in this price range? Or are there others to consider?

I also really like the thought of just getting a decent shooting gun (like pitbull1973's R5) and upgrading/customizing as I get better with the gun.

So many options.... Thanks again guys. The help is much appreciated!
Click to expand...

That is a big depends... I love my SVSS but with a limited budget, an extra $1400 goes along ways to get the complete system up and running. The SIII are wonderful scopes and their performance will satisfy the vast majority of shooters. The SVSS puts you in the top tier of optics in the market..... nice but not necessary.

Review objectives and all the bits and pieces you need to go shoot. I think you will quickly find your budget will be spread thin once you include rifle, optics, reloading gear and components.

The older Savage actions are THE donor to build up a wonderful shooting rifle that can keep up with custom rigs for way less money. New ones are decent too but I prefer the older ones. See my articles.... this is what I would recommend to start. Big dollar rifle and big dollar scope with no proper ammo.... performance will be wasted.

Rems are great and we work on many... but costs to put together will always be higher... kind of. New barrel options have just changed this matrix. new stock options also change the cost to performance ratio.

Ultimately, you need to decide what you want in your hands and what it should be able to do on target. The parts will sort themselves out very quickly.

If I can help, let me know

Jerry
 
For what it's worth I had a few Remington 700's and of course they were great, but I recently picked up a Savage because it was a good deal. I needed a more compact rig for packing on a bike so I got a 10TR.. And I can't stop geeking out about it. It's such a great platform at the perfect price point if you're getting into this. I wish I got one years ago.

Put good glass on it and you can't miss. I'd love to build up an older Savage now

A few more points to make about reloading; it's a lot of fun! It will seriously save you lots of $ by cutting your ammo costs to less than half (equipment can be had cheap: Lee 50th Anniversary kit is a good starter + case length gauge for trimming), it's a great way to unwind and have some quiet time at the end of the day, and it will give you a much greater understanding of what is involved in the sport.
 
I'd rather have a S&B PMii on a Tikka or Rem700p or 5r then a AI with a bushnell personally.

When you "Step down" from a S&B or TT to a NF ATACR your not sacrificing much for the $1000+ saved so there a great option also.

So my thoughts, get the good glass first, and a decent rifle. Down the road you can upgrade the rifle if you feel the need.
 
Thanks again for all of the help, fellas. I think I am strongly leaning toward "over glassing" with a scope that will last me for several rifles, getting into reloading from the get-go, and building a rifle off of a decent action rather than buying an off the shelf gun. As I look around I can see that chassis systems and aftermarket barrels, triggers, etc. are fairly easy to come by for the Remington and Savage platforms and not so much for Sako, Tikka, etc. Not to mention that the euro-guns have a much higher entry level price point.

People keep mentioning that the TRG is the last word in tactical/precision style rifles, and I do appreciate the input. That said, they are expensive and their proprietary accessories are crazy expensive. For example, with the latest price increase, the base model blued TRG in .308 is $3800, while the phosphate finished ones are pushing $500! Not to mention that .308 TRG magazines are now $300 a piece! Plus I really like the idea of being able to easily change barrels and stocks/chassis systems as my shooting tastes change.

On a side note, I did find a blued .308 TRG as Wholesale Sports in Saskatoon for jut under $3k (thanks to Shooter!) but the individual WS stores wont ship; you have to go through mail order and mail order won't pull from store inventory... Annoying but not surprising. WS is a big business and they do what they have to to manage the chaos.

Jerry: Thanks, I will definitely spend some time today reading through the articles on you website!
 
krausb said:
I will say that I have some reservations about both Remington and Savage guns. I know people, both here on the forums and in real life, that have had issues with both. But that honestly was a few years ago and I don't know what either company's QC is like now. So I am keeping an open mind to those brands and willing (hell, even hoping!) to hear some first hand experiences from you guys. I have heard that Remington's actions are prone to issues with not having all of the bolt lugs properly lock up; and I have seen Savage actions so warped that a scope could not be mounted (granted these both were Savage hunting rifles and not precision/tactical guns FWIW).
Click to expand...
Poor quality control is endemic to the American firearms industry. There are smaller American gunmakers that focus on the high end of the market and produce quality stuff, bull all the big name, mainstream brands (Remington, Savage, Mossberg, Colt, Ruger, S&W, etc.) have poor QC these days and put out products that, in years past, would have been considered factory seconds at best. They figure they can make more money by flooding Walmarts with crudely made but cheap guns (and then dealing with warranty claims if necessary) than by building a quality product that the average American would not buy because it's "overpriced". Stay away from Remington and Savage unless you are going the custom route and trashing everything but the action.

I have to go against the grain and say that you'd be better off with a great rifle and a decent scope than vice versa. Optics quality has advanced a great deal in recent years and you can buy some pretty phenomenal glass for $1,000 or so. Sure, a $3,000 scope will be better but not nearly 3x better. High-end optics begin to really shine when shooting in low light conditions. Sometimes, you also pay a substantial premium for extreme ruggedness (i.e. S&B and Nightforce). Such qualities may be important for tactical or even hunting applications but less so for punching paper.
 
Last edited:
I partially agree with your opinion on optics, but where I think that theory lacks is a 1000.00 optic will not track like a 2000.00 optic, at least not 10/10 of them. It's my opinion that if your took 10 vortex PST, 10 of those will have great glass, but only 5 will perform mechanically like they should, if you took 10 NF nxs, 10 will have great glass, 9.5 will track to perfection, then if you look at SB line, for the extra 1000.00 over the nightforce, some say even clearer glass (I think so, but hardly noticeable) and 9.95 will track perfect. I stopped at nightforce because although I strive for perfection that SB may give I can buy 3 of NF for the price of 2 SB and they are not worth the extra money in my opinion when the differences are so close that you may not be able to measure them, but me being the hypocrite I am, think that the nightforce was easily justifiable after my experiences with multiple vortex optics.

To the op, great choice on your route. You will not regret that road. Your rifle is easy to upgrade when your ready, or right away.
 
duncansuds said:
I partially agree with your opinion on optics, but where I think that theory lacks is a 1000.00 optic will not track like a 2000.00 optic, at least not 10/10 of them. It's my opinion that if your took 10 vortex PST, 10 of those will have great glass, but only 5 will perform mechanically like they should, if you took 10 NF nxs, 10 will have great glass, 9.5 will track to perfection, then if you look at SB line, for the extra 1000.00 over the nightforce, some say even clearer glass (I think so, but hardly noticeable) and 9.95 will track perfect. I stopped at nightforce because although I strive for perfection that SB may give I can buy 3 of NF for the price of 2 SB and they are not worth the extra money in my opinion when the differences are so close that you may not be able to measure them, but me being the hypocrite I am, think that the nightforce was easily justifiable after my experiences with multiple vortex optics.

To the op, great choice on your route. You will not regret that road. Your rifle is easy to upgrade when your ready, or right away.
Click to expand...

I guess you haven't spent much time with the Sightron SIII scopes???

There are reasons why I do not sell Vortex scopes but a bunch of Sightron products
Jerry
 
Sorry i got to 3-4 post didn't read the whole tread.

I am a noob wen it comes to lr shooting but here is the route i went am i am super happy... i could have went cheaper on the scope and have the same result but i wanted something i would keep worry free for as long as i will shoot.

I bought a savage 10 tr top it of with nightforce ring and nxs 5-22x50 ( 56 were sold out) added a harris type bipod and a kel-tec muzzle brake. So about a 3500$ package all together. Shot .85" with federal siera game king 168 gr. And .68" with honady superformance match a-max 168gr. O and btw i concider myself a beginner shooter and probably a bad shot! So to me it's amazing what this 700$ rifle could have done with factory ammo a burris fullfeild 6.5-20 or similar price scope and a good shooter! It's probably a .5 moa rifle
 
Jerry,

I haven't yet no. Can't commet on thier quality for myself yet. I was thinking about one for the misses 243 LR rifle to see how it did. I admit I am a little gunshy about the purchase when I am ready for it soley due to excellent reviews vortex had seemingly had before, but there are many reputable shooters starting to give rave to sightrons, I have looked through them and would say they are dead in between vortex and nightforce and was looking amazing to me ( just for the record, I think vortex glass is exceptional and I think NF glass is just a bit better), you could always send me a demo model Jerry lol. All this being said, I had excellent tracking and function with my 6500 Bushnell and it was under 1000.00. But it's glass at above 18x or so started to noticeably diminish in clarity. That was my complaint with it.
 
Sometimes i think i should have went with cheaper glass, burris or jerry's sightron and save 1200-1800$ but then i would have spent alot of time saying what if and i wonder... plus here i have no way of seing a nightforce or any other pricey optics.
 
I would buy the sightron, get a savage or Remington in 223 with a 1-8 or 1-7 twist barrel, and get a middle of the road reloading kit and some redding comp dies. Once you learn to shoot, you'll know exactly what you want and you can sell your barrel and dies and build exactly what you need/want. I would get the s3 8-32 or 10-50. You'll have a little extra money left over for the small stuff that you'll learn really matters. Good brass, proper cleaning gear, maybe an Edgewood rear bag and a Caldwell rock br, or a decent bipod.
 
Last edited:
When I got on the Cdn National team for the 2013 Worlds... there was a lot of testing to ensure the scopes we used would work. Kinda sucks if you dial 1 min of wind and you get ?????

NF, March, Sightron and S&B (with caveats) were the only brands we used.

When you compete at these levels, you simply have no time or patience for gear that doesn't work as expected. I continue to shoot with Sightron scopes with confidence and the new SVSS moves the fence post on what a target high mag scope can be AT ANY PRICE.

I think if you had a chance to set up a scope for your eyes instead of using another shooters, the performance will meet or exceed the NF NXS. The higher mag SIII's today are incrementally better then the ones I used 2 to 3 yrs back ... which were already better then anything in their price range.

So, I have zero concerns a shooter is going to go... meh, not good glass. They may say a S&B has warmer colours, a NF competition a hint better resolution in some types of air, a March clearer at SR on a bright sunny day. I have no problem with any of these and they would be correct but you are also talking about optics 2 to 3 times the cost.

I used to be a huge Bushnell Elite fan when they were tied to Baush and Lomb... used a bunch, loved them. But current stuff has left me with ... Meh. I am looking at them again because they offer new FFP tactical scopes that shooter want for the bells and Whistles. The glass is definitely NOT top tier. But at some point, consumers want what they want.

Vortex has never offered any scopes with top tier glass... until the current gen 2 Razor (wait for my review cause it ain't all roses). But at $3500, you are in top tier territory so it better......

The simple answer is that the vast majority of shooter never look through top tier glass. Most NF NXS scopes are armed with glass similar to the B&L Elites of years past.... very good, but there is better. But many shooters never see even these. The generic store offers a range of commodity style glass that work but when you see better, it's pretty darn obvious.

Coatings lean the image quality towards some features that some shooters like and others don't. Like the heavy to yellow tint of some Euro scopes... not a good or bad thing. Just not something I prefer. Some glass picks up mirage very well... others see through. Again, a function of the engineering and coatings.

My competition demands that my scopes work... PERIOD. Nowadays, you aren't going to podium unless everything is working its best. There are many superb shooters competing in Canada, they aren't leaving much to chance.

I sell Sightrons simply because there is nothing else in its price point worth offering.... as a business, I WANT more stuff to sell but I really want the performance to fit the investment. Not so easy nowadays in some products.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom